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Thread: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are required to cooperate with an investigation, which is what was going on. She refused to even identify herself, a necessity for an ongoing investigation, which is different than a cop simply asking to see your ID. He was investigating a potential crime, something he had every right to be doing and needed to know her identity for.
    In this specific case - yes. I agree. I was speaking generally. If it's an anonymous call and the cop has nothing else there is no reasonable suspicion and hence no investigation.
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not how it works. There is a difference between having to provide ID or identify yourself to a police officer simply because he wants to know who you are and having to identify yourself during the course of an investigation the officer is conducting when you are connected to that investigation. Laws pertaining to identifying yourself normally deal only with the latter. The former is always considered something you have to do unless in those rare instances identifying yourself could be self incrimination (even then, it is iffy).
    Again agreed in this case. I was making a general statement.
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Correct. If you have been stopped you can't walk away - though the officer cannot detain you forever (20 minutes max seems to be to rule of thumb). The question is whether the detention would be legal in this case. As I stated above if the tip was anonymous the detention probably would not be legal.
    The tip was not anonymous and it specifically identified those two specific people. Watts has zero leg to stand on at all.
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    In this specific case - yes. I agree. I was speaking generally. If it's an anonymous call and the cop has nothing else there is no reasonable suspicion and hence no investigation.
    Actually, the officers can still investigate based on an anonymous call. If other information leads the officers to a reasonable suspicion that some specific people are involved in a crime, either related to or completely separate from what the call was made about, they can then investigate that crime. The key is only in being able to articulate what that reasonable suspicion was. It doesn't take as much as many want to believe here for a cop to articulate a "reasonable suspicion".
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, the officers can still investigate based on an anonymous call. If other information leads the officers to a reasonable suspicion that some specific people are involved in a crime, either related to or completely separate from what the call was made about, they can then investigate that crime. The key is only in being able to articulate what that reasonable suspicion was. It doesn't take as much as many want to believe here for a cop to articulate a "reasonable suspicion".
    Absolutely. Other information is the key. And I know what's reasonable is pretty much left up to the cop.
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Apparently, the Chief of Police disagrees with you. Perhaps you should take that up with him. Do you have a link to the ruling as to whether it is just in general not showing ID or actually not showing ID or at least refusing to identify yourself during an investigation, as was going on here?
    Stop and identify statutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The California Peace Officers Legal Sourcebook ("CPOLS"; written by the office of the California Attorney General) maintains that failure to identify oneself does not constitute a violation of California Penal Code §148(a)(1), resisting, delaying, or obstructing a peace officer:
    Unlike Nevada and 20 other states, California does not have a statute mandating that a detainee identify himself, and that obligation cannot be read into Penal Code Section 148. (Rev. 1/08, p. 2.14a)
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    This was not a "stop and identify" situation. This was an investigation of a potential crime. There is a difference in the two things. Stop and identify statutes deal with situations where a police officer just stops someone without any reasonable suspicion at all that a crime has occurred or might occur. It isn't part of any investigation, only curiosity of the police officer given some things he sees that might appear suspicious.
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This was not a "stop and identify" situation. This was an investigation of a potential crime. There is a difference in the two things. Stop and identify statutes deal with situations where a police officer just stops someone without any reasonable suspicion at all that a crime has occurred or might occur. It isn't part of any investigation, only curiosity of the police officer given some things he sees that might appear suspicious.
    Penal Code Section 148 Resisting Delaying or Obstructing Officer

    California Penal Code §148(a)(1) applies during investigations and not just "stop and identify"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Penal Code Section 148 Resisting Delaying or Obstructing Officer

    California Penal Code §148(a)(1) applies during investigations and not just "stop and identify"
    You are not understanding here. The application however of the law applies differently when it comes to whether or not the situation is a "stop and identify" situation or an investigation. Your information, that ruling, was based on a stop and identify situation, saying that a person cannot be charged with obstruction/delaying an officer when the person is solely being asked to identify themselves because the cop wanted to stop them, without any reasonable suspicion of a crime, without really investigating a specific situation. Rulings are specific for the situations, not the laws that are being used. You specifically cited a "stop and identify" wiki page, which is what that CPOLS was referring to, that situation.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are not understanding here. The application however of the law applies differently when it comes to whether or not the situation is a "stop and identify" situation or an investigation.
    The link I posted refers to California Penal Code §148(a)(1) which applies to both investigatory stops and non-investigatory stops.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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