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Thread: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, that's not how it goes. If he finds them clothed, he identifies them and takes down all the details. It's then referred to detectives who investigate the complaints called in. If the witnesses want to step forward and the DA wants to go forward with the case, then it's a matter for the court to decide.
    Thank you Dick Tracey.

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    This was the complaint. Now whether or not you find merit in the complaint - it is what it is and it may mean nothing to you personally. However, ff this behavior is a statutory offense, the police had to deal with it based on the complaints.
    You are right that none of this means anything to me personally. I'm not interested in who claimed what about her activities to the police, or the merits of what they claimed. It seems clear the report police received at least gave them the reasonable suspicion of criminal activity they needed to detain this woman briefly to ask her about it, even if it did not give them the probable cause needed to arrest her.

    I was responding to a poster's claim that this seizure of this woman by police was not a Terry stop, and I asked him what else it was. After all, it must have been either a brief investigatory detention--often called a Terry stop--or an arrest. And I don't see anything in the facts that shows the police arrested her. I heard that at some point they handcuffed her, but that by itself does not prove she was under arrest. The Supreme Court has made clear police may use some force during a Terry stop, for example to keep the detainee they're questioning from running away. If they had probable cause to think this woman had committed a crime, and arrested her because of it, why did they turn right around and let her go?

    Actually, the most interesting question about all this for me is what basis there is for state laws making public fornication a crime. Our Supreme Court has held that promoting the majority's view that an act involving sex is immoral and unacceptable is not a legitimate interest of government, and that therefore laws which serve only this interest are unconstitutional. I don't see what other government interest is served by a law against fornication, any more than state laws against homosexual sodomy, masturbation, adult incest, bestiality, and so on.

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post

    I was responding to a poster's claim that this seizure of this woman by police was not a Terry stop
    Umm, no. Your responses began after I pointed out that a person can be detained (until the police can identify you) for refusing to identify yourself
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    If she was white, they wouldn't have hassled her.
    Just curious. Are cops allowed to interact with black people for any reason without it being racist?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm, no. Your responses began after I pointed out that a person can be detained (until the police can identify you) for refusing to identify yourself
    These were your words in #103: "This wasn't a Terry stop." As I said to Removable Mind, that was the post I was responding to in the post he responded to.

    But come to the point. Tell us what kind of seizure this was, if not a Terry stop. An arrest?

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    These were your words in #103: "This wasn't a Terry stop." As I said to Removable Mind, that was the post I was responding to in the post he responded to.

    But come to the point. Tell us what kind of seizure this was, if not a Terry stop. An arrest?
    I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure your posts #94 and #100 came before my post #103

    And again, there are more choices than "terry stop or arrest"

    Do you have a point, or do you just like to quibble?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Obstructing a lawful investigation is a crime pretty much everywhere.
    Maybe that's an indication that we need to change our laws then.

    I mean the racial component injects a fair amount of political divisiveness into this but at the end of the day the "investigation" that she obstructed basically began and ended with checking that ID. It's hard for me to believe turning over her ID played a crucial role in the investigation that decided she committed no crime, so I'm not really sure why it was so crucial that she turn over that ID.

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Maybe that's an indication that we need to change our laws then.

    I mean the racial component injects a fair amount of political divisiveness into this but at the end of the day the "investigation" that she obstructed basically began and ended with checking that ID. It's hard for me to believe turning over her ID played a crucial role in the investigation that decided she committed no crime, so I'm not really sure why it was so crucial that she turn over that ID.
    In CA, refusing to identify oneself is not considered obstruction unless the police have probable cause, in which case you're probably arrested.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You are right that none of this means anything to me personally. I'm not interested in who claimed what about her activities to the police, or the merits of what they claimed. It seems clear the report police received at least gave them the reasonable suspicion of criminal activity they needed to detain this woman briefly to ask her about it, even if it did not give them the probable cause needed to arrest her.

    I was responding to a poster's claim that this seizure of this woman by police was not a Terry stop, and I asked him what else it was. After all, it must have been either a brief investigatory detention--often called a Terry stop--or an arrest. And I don't see anything in the facts that shows the police arrested her. I heard that at some point they handcuffed her, but that by itself does not prove she was under arrest. The Supreme Court has made clear police may use some force during a Terry stop, for example to keep the detainee they're questioning from running away. If they had probable cause to think this woman had committed a crime, and arrested her because of it, why did they turn right around and let her go?

    Actually, the most interesting question about all this for me is what basis there is for state laws making public fornication a crime. Our Supreme Court has held that promoting the majority's view that an act involving sex is immoral and unacceptable is not a legitimate interest of government, and that therefore laws which serve only this interest are unconstitutional. I don't see what other government interest is served by a law against fornication, any more than state laws against homosexual sodomy, masturbation, adult incest, bestiality, and so on.
    SC: Promoting the majority's view that an act involving sex as immoral or unacceptable s not the legitimate interest of government. Okay.

    The SCOTUS may not have an interest in issues like gender related sex or what sex act is moral or immoral.

    As far as I'm concerned, if one is going to do their neighbor's goat. I don't personally care. But I might add...just don't get caught doing it in a public place.

    However....

    When did the S.C. rule that states can't make laws regarding sexual conduct in public places like in cars in the view of others, on park benches, at public swimming pools, inside a state capitol building, etc?

    New York court has ruled that sex in a car was not sex in a public place unless the act could be readily seen by passers-by. (People v. McNamara, 585 N.E.2nd 788 (1991).)

    I think that you'll find this to be the case in most states. And most laws are considered to be misdemeanor type laws. How exactly are these types of laws unconstitutional?

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    Re: Daniele Watts says she was detained for ‘showing affection’

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Maybe that's an indication that we need to change our laws then.

    I mean the racial component injects a fair amount of political divisiveness into this but at the end of the day the "investigation" that she obstructed basically began and ended with checking that ID. It's hard for me to believe turning over her ID played a crucial role in the investigation that decided she committed no crime, so I'm not really sure why it was so crucial that she turn over that ID.
    First off...she is the one who interjected race. It was a simple public indecency or prostitution investigation before that.

    Second, when investigating the alleged crime the cop should check the ID's of the people involved. If the woman came up as a known prostitute or the guy came up as a known John then there would have been cause to investigate further.

    The law doesn't need to change. What needs to happen is that people need to start understanding that the world doesn't revolve around them and that their farts don't smell like lilac. It's also time to look at exactly how this "animosity" between cops and blacks is really generated.

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