• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ray Rice's Wife, Janay, Defends Him and Rips Media In Statment

The Tiger Woods analogy is a good one. Somehow Nike got implicated because he decided to cheat on his wife. Go figure.

The mob mentality is very much alive and well. In fact, I see it on here.

Where do you see mob mentality here? The initial thread was concerned about the damage to Rice's career and I think most people have a hard time finding sympathy for him.

He was given a multi million dollar salary on a public stage. The one drawback to that extremely generous salary is that any inappropriate conduct you have can cost you that stage.

Some misconduct such as drugs they can give you a bye but any conduct of harming children or women is going to cost you. It is just unacceptable.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke
 
Where do you see mob mentality here? The initial thread was concerned about the damage to Rice's career and I think most people have a hard time finding sympathy for him.

He was given a multi million dollar salary on a public stage. The one drawback to that extremely generous salary is that any inappropriate conduct you have can cost you that stage.

Some misconduct such as drugs they can give you a bye but any conduct of harming children or women is going to cost you. It is just unacceptable.

I was talking about the people calling for Roger Goodell's head, not Ray Rice.
 
I was talking about the people calling for Roger Goodell's head, not Ray Rice.

We mostly agree on this issue, but I'm also calling for Goodell's head because he himself has brought dishonor and disrepute to the NFL and a sport that I love. If the AP report proves accurate, that makes it even worse for me. Not only did Goodell institute a 2 game penalty in July, long before necessary and apparently before he had all the facts but he's now apparently gone on national television and insisted that nobody at the NFL offices had access to the video and he was challenged on the veracity of that claim within 24 hours. To believe him, you'd have to believe that his own staff lied to him directly or that he never bothered to investigate whether or not they had access before he went out and put the league's integrity on the line. To call in the former head of the FBI to investigate now, after the damage has been done, is another sign of complete incompetence.

And here's another reason why he should go - he's forever claiming that not being aware of a problem is no excuse for your actions - if a player claims they didn't know a banned substance was in something they took, too bad, they're just as guilty as if they knew. On that basis, too bad Goodell didn't know there was more damage in the tape he claims he didn't see and didn't have access to - he should have known and ignorance is no defense.

At a minimum, he should be suspended until the league investigation is complete. More appropriately, he should take a leave of absence or resign.

And this all stems from the league office getting involved where they shouldn't. This incident had nothing to do with the league or the integrity of games played. Rice's contract is with the Ravens and they should have been the ones to enforce the morality clauses within that contract and they should be the ones to make the decision to suspend or release. By the league getting involved, they take the onus off where it belongs - in the courts, and in the direct employer's office.
 
Last edited:
No worries. I have no problem with Rice getting what he deserved, even though I don't think he got what he really deserved.

It's a bit ironic that the NFL's efforts to cover this up and let him off lightly have really backfired and, so far, the only one paying the price is Rice and his wife. If the NFL acted properly, and looked at the tape, they could have given him a 6 or 8 game suspension and this would barely be in the news. They even could have given him the 2 games, then admitted they screwed up, and given him more.

Now, they have killed their credibility and Rice doesn't even have a team. Just a huge screw up by all involved.
 
It's a bit ironic that the NFL's efforts to cover this up and let him off lightly have really backfired and, so far, the only one paying the price is Rice and his wife. If the NFL acted properly, and looked at the tape, they could have given him a 6 or 8 game suspension and this would barely be in the news. They even could have given him the 2 games, then admitted they screwed up, and given him more.

Now, they have killed their credibility and Rice doesn't even have a team. Just a huge screw up by all involved.

Are you suggesting that the NFL hold evidence hearings (trials?) now? It seems that the NFL is reacting to PC pressure and weighing the severity (classes?) of crimes. What would make more sense is to have a real standard of NFL employee conduct (at all levels) in which any criminal conviction results in a 6 game suspension and any subsequent criminal conviction results in a lifetime ban. The NFL should never have to investigate, evaluate (weigh?) evidence and make a "case by case" decision.

Folks seem far more upset that Rice got a lighter "sentence" from the NFL than the state of NJ gave him for the same "crime" and they saw the same video taped evidence. Should all employers ban (refuse to hire or immediately fire) any employee that has one (or more) criminal charges that do not result in convictions?

In no way am I condoning any criminal conduct but I do question the idea that any employer should have an internal court system that ignores the result of our gov't courts and imposes its own "justice" based on public pressure to be more PC. Rice is not the first, last or only NFL.player that has faced a criminal charge. BTW, Rice was never convicted of that charge - he received a PBJ deal as a "first" (rich?) offender.

Uneven playing field? Judge, prosecutor who let Ray Rice walk toss book at single mom | Fox News
 
Are you suggesting that the NFL hold evidence hearings (trials?) now? It seems that the NFL is reacting to PC pressure and weighing the severity (classes?) of crimes. What would make more sense is to have a real standard of NFL employee conduct (at all levels) in which any criminal conviction results in a 6 game suspension and any subsequent criminal conviction results in a lifetime ban. The NFL should never have to investigate, evaluate (weigh?) evidence and make a "case by case" decision.

Folks seem far more upset that Rice got a lighter "sentence" from the NFL than the state of NJ gave him for the same "crime" and they saw the same video taped evidence. Should all employers ban (refuse to hire or immediately fire) any employee that has one (or more) criminal charges that do not result in convictions?

In no way am I condoning any criminal conduct but I do question the idea that any employer should have an internal court system that ignores the result of our gov't courts and imposes its own "justice" based on public pressure to be more PC. Rice is not the first, last or only NFL.player that has faced a criminal charge. BTW, Rice was never convicted of that charge - he received a PBJ deal as a "first" (rich?) offender.

Uneven playing field? Judge, prosecutor who let Ray Rice walk toss book at single mom | Fox News

This is a prime example of why things get so screwed up.

First and foremost the idea that there can be a one size fits all policy for rules/legal infractions is just a terrible idea. As are supposed zero-tolerance policies. They lead to decisions that defy logic. If you set one policy for domestic violence cases then a player who gets in a argument with his wife/girlfriend and grabs their arms and pushes them will receive the same penalty as someone who cold-cocks their wife with left hook and then drags unconscious body on the floor and does nothing to help her? That makes no sense. There should be a case by case decision made. Not all domestic abuse cases are the same. Some are much, much more heinous than others.

Second, all employers that I have ever worked for do not have a court system. They have, like the NFL, a body of people that deal employee misconduct with one person, in the case of most businesses the head of HR in the case of the NFL the commissioner, responsible for deciding on the ultimate punishment and meting it out. You do have the right to appeal if you are lucky enough to work under a CBA if not then your only recourse is the courts.

These kind of cookie cutter rules is partly why we are in this mess to begin with. The whole reason Goodell gave for giving Rice a two-day suspension was prior precedence. If he properly weighed all the evidence and seen the callous nature of the attack and meted out a more appropriate penalty we would not be in this mess.
 
This is a prime example of why things get so screwed up.

First and foremost the idea that there can be a one size fits all policy for rules/legal infractions is just a terrible idea. As are supposed zero-tolerance policies. They lead to decisions that defy logic. If you set one policy for domestic violence cases then a player who gets in a argument with his wife/girlfriend and grabs their arms and pushes them will receive the same penalty as someone who cold-cocks their wife with left hook and then drags unconscious body on the floor and does nothing to help her? That makes no sense. There should be a case by case decision made. Not all domestic abuse cases are the same. Some are much, much more heinous than others.

Second, all employers that I have ever worked for do not have a court system. They have, like the NFL, a body of people that deal employee misconduct with one person, in the case of most businesses the head of HR in the case of the NFL the commissioner, responsible for deciding on the ultimate punishment and meting it out. You do have the right to appeal if you are lucky enough to work under a CBA if not then your only recourse is the courts.

These kind of cookie cutter rules is partly why we are in this mess to begin with. The whole reason Goodell gave for giving Rice a two-day suspension was prior precedence. If he properly weighed all the evidence and seen the callous nature of the attack and meted out a more appropriate penalty we would not be in this mess.

As my link pointed out, there are already different charges/sentences for "different levels of" criminal activity. How does the NFL, or any other employer, hope to develop a uniform and comprehensive policy to encompass all possible criminal allegations? You correctly noted that there are different levels of criminal charges/sentences - my point is that the courts already have that job (to weigh the individual act's circumstances) and thus the NFL need only base their policy on those results.

It was a NJ prosecutor's/judge's decision to assign a light sentence (actually a PBJ deal) to Rice yet the outrage is directed at the NFL. Most cases of domestic violence are not on video tape thus the NFL must weigh only the he said/she said testimony - just like our court system does.
 
As my link pointed out, there are already different charges/sentences for "different levels of" criminal activity. How does the NFL, or any other employer, hope to develop a uniform and comprehensive policy to encompass all possible criminal allegations? You correctly noted that there are different levels of criminal charges/sentences - my point is that the courts already have that job (to weigh the individual act's circumstances) and thus the NFL need only base their policy on those results.

It was a NJ prosecutor's/judge's decision to assign a light sentence (actually a PBJ deal) to Rice yet the outrage is directed at the NFL. Most cases of domestic violence are not on video tape thus the NFL must weigh only the he said/she said testimony - just like our court system does.

Point proven...each case is difference and assigning some kind of cookie cutter one size fits all solution is not a helpful proposition. In most cases of domestic violence you do have substantial evidence based off of injuries and police testimony not just he said/she said which as we have seen in the Ray Rice case ends up being he said/she says the same usually out of fear of retribution. In this case we actually had objective video evidence that we could all use to weight the severity of the crime. Therefore if we had a once size fits all cookie cutter punishment we would not be free to incur harsher penalties if the case demands it as it does in the case. Like or not judging things on case by case basis is the only correct way of handling these issues. Otherwise we wouldn't need to call it judging.
 
Are you suggesting that the NFL hold evidence hearings (trials?) now? It seems that the NFL is reacting to PC pressure and weighing the severity (classes?) of crimes. What would make more sense is to have a real standard of NFL employee conduct (at all levels) in which any criminal conviction results in a 6 game suspension and any subsequent criminal conviction results in a lifetime ban. The NFL should never have to investigate, evaluate (weigh?) evidence and make a "case by case" decision.

Folks seem far more upset that Rice got a lighter "sentence" from the NFL than the state of NJ gave him for the same "crime" and they saw the same video taped evidence. Should all employers ban (refuse to hire or immediately fire) any employee that has one (or more) criminal charges that do not result in convictions?

In no way am I condoning any criminal conduct but I do question the idea that any employer should have an internal court system that ignores the result of our gov't courts and imposes its own "justice" based on public pressure to be more PC. Rice is not the first, last or only NFL.player that has faced a criminal charge. BTW, Rice was never convicted of that charge - he received a PBJ deal as a "first" (rich?) offender.

Uneven playing field? Judge, prosecutor who let Ray Rice walk toss book at single mom | Fox News

Excellent post, and I agree with Meadowlark on that link. The difference in how that woman from Philly was treated versus Rice is what should be the big concern here - NOT the NFL.
 
It's a bit ironic that the NFL's efforts to cover this up and let him off lightly have really backfired and, so far, the only one paying the price is Rice and his wife. If the NFL acted properly, and looked at the tape, they could have given him a 6 or 8 game suspension and this would barely be in the news. They even could have given him the 2 games, then admitted they screwed up, and given him more.

Now, they have killed their credibility and Rice doesn't even have a team. Just a huge screw up by all involved.

A 6 game suspension, a 2 game suspension. None of us should care about that. I honestly don't care what punishments the NFL is doling out to people. He was never convicted of a crime in the state of NJ, which is the entity that should have punished him.
 
Yeah, I thought so. Her opinion doesn't count.

No, you don't get it. You're the one saying our opinion doesn't count. She forgives him, so I'm not allowed to be upset about his behavior.
 
No, you don't get it. You're the one saying our opinion doesn't count. She forgives him, so I'm not allowed to be upset about his behavior.

Some people have no idea what perpetuates domestic violence. They think if the women accepts it, then it's fine. Obviously, self serving rationale.
 
We mostly agree on this issue, but I'm also calling for Goodell's head because he himself has brought dishonor and disrepute to the NFL and a sport that I love. If the AP report proves accurate, that makes it even worse for me. Not only did Goodell institute a 2 game penalty in July, long before necessary and apparently before he had all the facts but he's now apparently gone on national television and insisted that nobody at the NFL offices had access to the video and he was challenged on the veracity of that claim within 24 hours. To believe him, you'd have to believe that his own staff lied to him directly or that he never bothered to investigate whether or not they had access before he went out and put the league's integrity on the line. To call in the former head of the FBI to investigate now, after the damage has been done, is another sign of complete incompetence.

And here's another reason why he should go - he's forever claiming that not being aware of a problem is no excuse for your actions - if a player claims they didn't know a banned substance was in something they took, too bad, they're just as guilty as if they knew. On that basis, too bad Goodell didn't know there was more damage in the tape he claims he didn't see and didn't have access to - he should have known and ignorance is no defense.

At a minimum, he should be suspended until the league investigation is complete. More appropriately, he should take a leave of absence or resign.

And this all stems from the league office getting involved where they shouldn't. This incident had nothing to do with the league or the integrity of games played. Rice's contract is with the Ravens and they should have been the ones to enforce the morality clauses within that contract and they should be the ones to make the decision to suspend or release. By the league getting involved, they take the onus off where it belongs - in the courts, and in the direct employer's office.

Okay. We have to disagree here and that's okay.

The NFL penalty came after the hearing in NJ. I don't think it was late at all. If the state of NJ had no interest in making Rice pay for a crime, why is it the NFL's job to clean up? It isn't, IMO.

I'm going to watch football tonight and this weekend with the same enjoyment I always did.
 
Are you suggesting that the NFL hold evidence hearings (trials?) now? It seems that the NFL is reacting to PC pressure and weighing the severity (classes?) of crimes. What would make more sense is to have a real standard of NFL employee conduct (at all levels) in which any criminal conviction results in a 6 game suspension and any subsequent criminal conviction results in a lifetime ban. The NFL should never have to investigate, evaluate (weigh?) evidence and make a "case by case" decision.

Folks seem far more upset that Rice got a lighter "sentence" from the NFL than the state of NJ gave him for the same "crime" and they saw the same video taped evidence. Should all employers ban (refuse to hire or immediately fire) any employee that has one (or more) criminal charges that do not result in convictions?

In no way am I condoning any criminal conduct but I do question the idea that any employer should have an internal court system that ignores the result of our gov't courts and imposes its own "justice" based on public pressure to be more PC. Rice is not the first, last or only NFL.player that has faced a criminal charge. BTW, Rice was never convicted of that charge - he received a PBJ deal as a "first" (rich?) offender.

Uneven playing field? Judge, prosecutor who let Ray Rice walk toss book at single mom | Fox News

What you call PC, I call the free market. The NFL doesn't give a **** about what their players do beyond what impact it might have on the bottom line. If people are upset and that causes fewer tickets to be sold, fewer jerseys to be sold, or fewer advertisements to be sold, they care. They aren't weighing the severity of crimes. They aren't law enforcement or the judicial system. They're a business. They're weighing their pocketbooks. When you complain about "PC," what you're really doing is complaining that people and businesses choose to care about something differently than you, and they act on those choices with their wallets.
 
Last edited:
A 6 game suspension, a 2 game suspension. None of us should care about that. I honestly don't care what punishments the NFL is doling out to people. He was never convicted of a crime in the state of NJ, which is the entity that should have punished him.

Well, the thing is, people do care. That is why the NFL is catching heat now. They gave him too light of a penalty, they could have given him more, and I'm sure they would have if they knew this was going to happen. They guy did break the law, but didn't get charged. But what really matters to the NFL is dollars, that's why they took action. And that is why they had to dump him, after they screwed up. But boy, they could not have done a worse job handling this whole thing, top to bottom.
 
Okay. We have to disagree here and that's okay.

The NFL penalty came after the hearing in NJ. I don't think it was late at all. If the state of NJ had no interest in making Rice pay for a crime, why is it the NFL's job to clean up? It isn't, IMO.

I'm going to watch football tonight and this weekend with the same enjoyment I always did.

That's fair - so will I - I've loved the Steelers for 50 years.

But just to be clear, I didn't say the NFL's initial suspension was "too late". I said it was too early - there was no need to hand down a suspension in July for the first two games of the season when the season doesn't start until September. There was plenty of time for the NFL to do their proper, due diligence, if they were going to act at all. This is why I don't believe for a minute that the Commissioner didn't have all the information, including the tape - the AP report seems to further solidify that.

And let's also be clear about the justice system handling of this - I've also said that I thought Rice got off easy because he's Rice and because his fiance/wife was refusing to testify against him - any other guy in the same situation is still in jail either awaiting trial or serving time. But irrespective of how the NJ justice system handled it, the Commissioner's handling of it is a separate matter and the Commissioner is accountable for his own actions.

I don't expect Goodell to be gone, although he should be. The NFL notoriously lacks integrity - just look at the handling of the concussion issues and retired players pensions/health benefits - both a disgrace - but they're very successful and everyone, including me, will look the other way once opening kickoff takes place tonight.
 
Janay Rice defends husband Ray Rice, rips media - Chicago Tribune



I wonder if anyone in the news media and all those sanctimoneous busybodies who think of themselves as protectors of women talked with Janay about it before destroying her husband's career.

Naw. They wouldn't have cared.

Thank you for posting this. It's amazing how the only person who's opinion should really matter in this whole situation is the one that everyone is either ignoring, or trying to discredit. People want to go after Goddell for the light punishment, but when you have the Wife arguing to be lenient, what else was he suppose to do? And for those saying "a lot of women who are abused stick with their men", that is true in situations where there was low self-esteem involved, and it is private. In this case, all she had to do was come out, trash him, and sue his ass for everything he's worth if she wanted. And keep in mind that Ray Rice has never had history of any of this sort of thing.
 
No, you don't get it. You're the one saying our opinion doesn't count. She forgives him, so I'm not allowed to be upset about his behavior.

Funny you say that, because in this situation, anyone who has had a dissenting opinion to the majority have been attacked, saying there "enabling women beating" or "anti-women". You know why your opinion doesn't matter? Because it's not your family that is affected. Everyone running around with their pitch forks pretending to be experts on this now, have not once stopped to consider what she thought.

Some people have no idea what perpetuates domestic violence. They think if the women accepts it, then it's fine. Obviously, self serving rationale.

Case in point. Eco, I'm going to assume that you haven't talked to her, so you shouldn't go around making generalizations about someone that you clearly know nothing about. It's true that some women do hide it and back up their men, but these are women who are outside of the public eye, that have no one to turn to. That isn't the case here; for one she did swing first and that does play into it, where most of the time the women does nothing but take the beating. Don't think I'm excusing Ray Rice's reaction, I unlike everyone else believe in true equality, and that NO ONE should be allowed to hit ANYONE, no matter the sex. But more importantly, because she's in the public eye, all she had to do was turn on Ray Rice, she would be the victim, and would end up suing him for everything he's worth, and would come away with a decent chunk. She didn't do that, and that speaks volume to me. That and Ray Rice has no past history of any Domestic Abuse.

Until either she, or someone very close to her (which she has friends, say what you will about Janay, the friends have nothing to be afraid of and would gladly spill the beans) says to the contrary, I'm going to take Janay at her word. Because she's the one that, once again, ends up being the victim.
 
Everyone running around with their pitch forks pretending to be experts on this now, have not once stopped to consider what she thought.

Those of us that understand the perpetuation of domestic violence are well aware of what she thinks. Those ignorant of the subject think her testimony is meaningful.

Case in point. Eco, I'm going to assume that you haven't talked to her, so you shouldn't go around making generalizations about someone that you clearly know nothing about. It's true that some women do hide it and back up their men, but these are women who are outside of the public eye, that have no one to turn to. That isn't the case here; for one she did swing first and that does play into it, where most of the time the women does nothing but take the beating. Don't think I'm excusing Ray Rice's reaction, I unlike everyone else believe in true equality, and that NO ONE should be allowed to hit ANYONE, no matter the sex. But more importantly, because she's in the public eye, all she had to do was turn on Ray Rice, she would be the victim, and would end up suing him for everything he's worth, and would come away with a decent chunk. She didn't do that, and that speaks volume to me. That and Ray Rice has no past history of any Domestic Abuse.

Until either she, or someone very close to her (which she has friends, say what you will about Janay, the friends have nothing to be afraid of and would gladly spill the beans) says to the contrary, I'm going to take Janay at her word. Because she's the one that, once again, ends up being the victim.

The bolded is excusing domestic violence.
 
Those of us that understand the perpetuation of domestic violence are well aware of what she thinks. Those ignorant of the subject think her testimony is meaningful.

The bolded is excusing domestic violence.

But you haven't talked to her have you? So in truth, you don't know anything about the situation, but are instead sitting on your high horse pretending to know. Like I said, she's got friends. And while there are times where the woman herself won't say anything, that doesn't stop her friends from saying something does it? Face it, your only seeing what you want to see.
 
Funny you say that, because in this situation, anyone who has had a dissenting opinion to the majority have been attacked, saying there "enabling women beating" or "anti-women". You know why your opinion doesn't matter? Because it's not your family that is affected. Everyone running around with their pitch forks pretending to be experts on this now, have not once stopped to consider what she thought.



Case in point. Eco, I'm going to assume that you haven't talked to her, so you shouldn't go around making generalizations about someone that you clearly know nothing about. It's true that some women do hide it and back up their men, but these are women who are outside of the public eye, that have no one to turn to. That isn't the case here; for one she did swing first and that does play into it, where most of the time the women does nothing but take the beating. Don't think I'm excusing Ray Rice's reaction, I unlike everyone else believe in true equality, and that NO ONE should be allowed to hit ANYONE, no matter the sex. But more importantly, because she's in the public eye, all she had to do was turn on Ray Rice, she would be the victim, and would end up suing him for everything he's worth, and would come away with a decent chunk. She didn't do that, and that speaks volume to me. That and Ray Rice has no past history of any Domestic Abuse.

Until either she, or someone very close to her (which she has friends, say what you will about Janay, the friends have nothing to be afraid of and would gladly spill the beans) says to the contrary, I'm going to take Janay at her word. Because she's the one that, once again, ends up being the victim.

Which part of this post makes it ok to punch someone out and drag them away by their feet? What part of my opinion do you take issue with? She says she forgives him. So what? Do I have to?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom