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The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

FaceofBachmann said:
Steal land from Mexico that has oil deposits?
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LMAO !!!

What's it take to be a hard core Lib with a Michelle Bachman obsession ?

A " tenuous " grasp of History and a bag full of talking points apparently.

Here's the Facts.... Oil and Gas in Texas accounts for only10 percent of our States total GDP.

That means Texas's economy is highly diversified.

In California, Silicon Valley ALSO accounts for 10 percent of that States GDP AND California is the Nation's 4rth largest Oil producer.

So why the distinction ? Why are millions of Californians moving to Texas ?

Why have nearly 200 Companies bailed on the Blue plague State California and moved here ?
 
Fenton said:
LMAO !!!

What's it take to be a hard core Lib with a Michelle Bachman obsession ?

A " tenuous " grasp of History and a bag full of talking points apparently.

Here's the Facts.... Oil and Gas in Texas accounts for only10 percent of our States total GDP.

That means Texas's economy is highly diversified.

In California, Silicon Valley ALSO accounts for 10 percent of that States GDP AND California is the Nation's 4rth largest Oil producer.

So why the distinction ? Why are millions of Californians moving to Texas ?

Why have nearly 200 Companies bailed on the Blue plague State California and moved here ?
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Without oil Texas would have even lower per capital income than Alabama, and it's almost there with oil.
 
FaceofBachmann said:
Without oil Texas would have even lower per capital income than Alabama, and it's almost there with oil.
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Gotta Love Texas !

We've built a Booming economy AND a budget surplus ( 10 Billion ) using Conservative economic principles while a Liberal Progressive President desperately tries to mitigate away his failures through 6 year old Bush blame and outright lies.

Millions of Americans have left their Liberal Plague States for Texas jobs and no, they're not coming here to be Oil field workers.

I mean did Toyota abandon California because we have oil ? No, of-course not. What about the nearly 200 other Companies that have abandoned California ?

How many were connected to the Oil and Gas business ?

So I love how our success has forced Left wingers into a perpetual state of delusion. They would rather believe their own lies than to admit that they're wrong or worse, that Conservatives are right.
 
Kurmugeon said:
Questions for Debate:

Is there any credence to this model?

Can it be countered or stopped? How?

When the American common people are force to default on personal debt en-masse, doesn't it follow that the American Government will also have to default as well?

Does the solution lie in Government Action, or in the Private Sector, or Both?

Is it to late?

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The US economy is driven by fiscal irresponsibility. The Middle Class is just an illusion created by credit card debt and bank loans. Fact is, if you want economic growth, you need people to spend money they don't really have. Finding the right balance to allow for economic prosperity and avoid financial collapse is the hard part and the answer lies in both government action and the private sector.
 
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Fenton said:
It IS a stupid solution.

Primarily because we have all the evidence we need to know its NOT going to work.

Did Japan just disappear off the radar of every Keynesian \ MMTer ?

And I'm a Texas Conservative. Of-course I have a solution.

Its the same economic principles that are behind Texas's booming economy.
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Carbon taxes will work to discourage CO2, but general taxation won't discourage production. It's liberal economics, Fenton, it's completely incoherent.
 
Not exactly. The toys were not real, and thus not broken. What was given is union hand outs. A union worker is paid $425 an HOUR total comp for working on road projects in CA, his defined benefit retirement is safe and the tax payers are screwed.


clownboy said:
That was supposed to get started almost six years ago. Another failed Obama promise. The money was thrown away on other broken toys.
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Fenton said:
Its the same economic principles that are behind Texas's booming economy.
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Geez, we went over this last month. The second largest component of your "booming" economy (GSP gains)....is.....wait for it...."mining".

So if everyone just had a reserves, they could be like Texas.....with all the child poverty and education underfunding too....if they want to follow that model.

And if we all had reserves, we could also solve our employment and personal debt issues too....while contributing to CO2.
 
clownboy said:
That was supposed to get started almost six years ago. Another failed Obama promise. The money was thrown away on other broken toys.
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You mean those tax cuts that made up 1/3 of the entire stimulus? I would agree that tax cuts rarely are worth the loss of revenue. The money saved is all too often not spent.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Geez, we went over this last month. The second largest component of your "booming" economy (GSP gains)....is.....wait for it...."mining".

So if everyone just had a reserves, they could be like Texas.....with all the child poverty and education underfunding too....if they want to follow that model.

And if we all had reserves, we could also solve our employment and personal debt issues too....while contributing to CO2.
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Yes, you rattled off the standard left wing rhetoric, and I corrected you.

Again, Oil and Gas is 10 percent of Texas's GDP.

Millions of Californians aren't moving here for Oil jobs and niether are the over 200 Businesses that have left that State behind.

Speaking of California Silicon Valley accounts for 10 percent of California's GDP.

Plus they're the 4rth largest Oil producer in the US. They COULD be the number one producer of Oil in the US but POLICY is stopping shale exploration out there

So why the huge distinction between the two States ?
 
And while we bicker, squabble and stomp, America the Wounded, slowly sinks below the waves of Debt and the Ice of Progressive-Fascism.​
 
Kurmugeon said:
And while we bicker, squabble and stomp, America the Wounded, slowly sinks below the waves of Debt and the Ice of Progressive-Fascism.​
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It's ok, countries are already dropping the dollar in their inter-national trade... Once the dollar gets dropped as the world reserve, and all that debt comes home, it will be worse than the Great Depression...

Back then the people were generally honourable, hard working, if not self-supporting... Now, when the food stamp cards don't work it takes a few hours for looting to set in, by the end of the week you would start to see cities burning to the ground.

Seriously, people now are so weak that they will whine if the wifi is not working at Starbucks, and you think these people will not tear the place apart if the money won't buy anything?
 
Fenton said:
Yes, you rattled off the standard left wing rhetoric, and I corrected you.

Again, Oil and Gas is 10 percent of Texas's GDP.
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Again, the "boom", economic gains, is fueled by oil. Your second largest change in GSP is petroleum.

"1/09/2014

As reported here by Dr. Mark Perry, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA), in the year preceding last September, Texas oil production surpassed that of oil-producing giants like Brazil, Venezuela, Nigeria, Mexico and Kuwait to move into the hypothetical Top Ten oil producing nations on earth. During September, Texas’ oil output was measured by IEA at 2.7 million barrels per day. This represents a doubling of the state’s daily oil output in just 29 months. Not since the early years of the 20th century has the state seen such a rapid rise in its oil output, and that steep incline shows no signs of slowing anytime soon.

If anything, the boom in West Texas might even accelerate in the next few years. The nascent Cline Shale play is beginning to heat up, and results continue to be very good in the Wolfberry/Sprayberry and other plays in the Permian. If current trends continue, it is very likely that Texas would leap past OPEC giants like Iran, Iraq and the United Arab Emirates to become the equivalent of the 6th largest oil producing nation over the next 12-18 months."

Quit the denial.
Millions of Californians aren't moving here for Oil jobs and niether are the over 200 Businesses that have left that State behind.

Speaking of California Silicon Valley accounts for 10 percent of California's GDP.

Plus they're the 4rth largest Oil producer in the US. They COULD be the number one producer of Oil in the US but POLICY is stopping shale exploration out there
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Nuts.
Texas has 313% greater levels of oil reserves, 4452% greater levels of NG reserves and 63% greater numbers of refineries. CA is limiting fracking because they care about ground water and air quality.


So why the huge distinction between the two States ?
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Uh, CA was hit much harder by the Bush Recession, as was AZ, NV, FL....but of those states, CA is doing well in GDP gains:

gsp_0614.png



I have no idea why you keep pointing me to CA, I don't live there. They have finally got a grip on budget issues after getting the GOP out of the way, but they will still be hobbled by prop 13, a con tax scheme.

What you should be asking is why states like WI and KS are doing so horribly, where the cons have full control of leg/Gov and continue to show badly against states in their region.
 
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RDS said:
Spend about $500 billion to fix up your aging infrastructure. That would create jobs, demand, improve the economy etc.
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actually they spent 700 billion on at least half of 700b on so called shovel ready jobs that were anything but shovel ready.
so that isn't going to work.

what we need is the promotion of better skilled work force. the jobs are out there but companies are having a hard time finding qualified workers.
so we need better secondary and job skill training programs.

next we need a less progressive tax system. more so on corporations.

our personal tax rate highest marginal rate should be no higher than 25%. you in fact live in singapore and i would like to see us adopt a similar
tax rate system where the average person making 60k pays about 4% in income tax.

the more money that people have the more money they will spend that generates more income and more demand which increases salaries as companies need to
up their inventory and production.

the last article i read is that companies are about at maximum capacity, but not quite there. so they are able to produce enough to meet the market.
we need something to push these companies over the edge.

my next plan is that companies would be allowed to bring in as much money as they want from overseas tax free as long as it goes towards job growth and expansion.
let them bring that money back to the US to work for people.

the problem is that we have one of the most anti business administrations in a long time. he has regulated business and growth into the ground.
next i would repeal obamacare that is causing people that want to expand to not to as they can't afford the insurance costs.

again i would setup a system like singapore has which is a massive HSA system.
 
ludin said:
actually they spent 700 billion on at least half of 700b on so called shovel ready jobs that were anything but shovel ready.
so that isn't going to work.
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Absolute lie.

The total amount of infrastructure spending in the ARRA was $111B, and it along with the rest of the TAX CUTS, State/Local fiscal relief, et al, had a multiplier greater than 1 making it successful. It was not large enough nor sustained long enough to turn around a $15TRILLION economy.[/QUOTE]
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Again, the "boom", economic gains, is fueled by oil. Your second largest change in GSP is petroleum.

"1/09/2014

As reported here by Dr. Mark Perry, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA), in the year preceding last September, Texas oil production surpassed that of oil-producing giants like Brazil, Venezuela, Nigeria, Mexico and Kuwait to move into the hypothetical Top Ten oil producing nations on earth. During September, Texas’ oil output was measured by IEA at 2.7 million barrels per day. This represents a doubling of the state’s daily oil output in just 29 months. Not since the early years of the 20th century has the state seen such a rapid rise in its oil output, and that steep incline shows no signs of slowing anytime soon.

If anything, the boom in West Texas might even accelerate in the next few years. The nascent Cline Shale play is beginning to heat up, and results continue to be very good in the Wolfberry/Sprayberry and other plays in the Permian. If current trends continue, it is very likely that Texas would leap past OPEC giants like Iran, Iraq and the United Arab Emirates to become the equivalent of the 6th largest oil producing nation over the next 12-18 months."

Quit the denial.Nuts.
Texas has 313% greater levels of oil reserves, 4452% greater levels of NG reserves and 63% greater numbers of refineries. CA is limiting fracking because they care about ground water and air quality.
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CA has limited just about anything that provides people good paying jobs except for software and those jobs are even moving to TX and other states that have more favorable economies.

Uh, CA was hit much harder by the Bush Recession, as was AZ, NV, FL....but of those states, CA is doing well in GDP gains:
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yea they were hit hard because like FL, NV and even AZ they had high housing inflation that was not based in reality.

gsp_0614.png


I have no idea why you keep pointing me to CA, I don't live there. They have finally got a grip on budget issues after getting the GOP out of the way, but they will still be hobbled by prop 13, a con tax scheme.

What you should be asking is why states like WI and KS are doing so horribly, where the cons have full control of leg/Gov and continue to show badly against states in their region.
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They hardly have a handle on their budget.

Jerry Brown Stands Atop California's Collapsing House Of Cards - Forbes

WI seems to be doing fairly well.
Scott Walker says Wisconsin tops its neighbors in income growth | PolitiFact Wisconsin

KS problems are elsewhere rather than tax cuts from brownback. the fact is there is still nothing in KS that makes businesses want to move there.
kansas city and wichita is about it.

it is mostly a farming state and there are other places that got the jump on them before mostly TX.

they can turn it around but it is going to take some work to get companies to move there.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Absolute lie.

The total amount of infrastructure spending in the ARRA was $111B, and it along with the rest of the TAX CUTS, State/Local fiscal relief, et al, had a multiplier greater than 1 making it successful. It was not large enough nor sustained long enough to turn around a $15TRILLION economy.
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[/QUOTE]

:doh

not a lie the total funding was 700B they spent about half of it. the majority of that was suppose to go to shovel ready projects that weren't shovel ready.
the ones that supposedly were they spent millions of dollars per job that once the job was done the people were fired if the project got off the ground at all.

It had nothing to do with being large enough as it did the states got the money and sured up their lack of funding with the money. IE the money wasn't used for the projects.

The Reason That Shovel Ready Stimulus Didn't Work Is That There Wasn't Any Stimulus - Forbes

The fact still remains that we did the whole infrastructure non-sense will make jobs non-sense it was a failure.

the reason the so called stimulus didn't work is because of this right here.
Ron Hart: Where did the stimulus money go? - The Orange County Register

Where did stimulus money really go? | Fox News

the stimulus didn't do anything because it was a huge payoff to obama lackies.
 
ludin said:
WI seems to be doing fairly well.

KS problems are elsewhere rather than tax cuts from brownback. the fact is there is still nothing in KS that makes businesses want to move there.
kansas city and wichita is about it.

it is mostly a farming state and there are other places that got the jump on them before mostly TX.

they can turn it around but it is going to take some work to get companies to move there.
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"Wisconsin Forecasted to Lag Further Behind Minnesota
8 Replies

And Kansas travels its own path

Bruce Bartlett brings my attention to this article noting Minnesota’s economic performance. This reminded me to check on the Philadelphia Fed’s forecast for the next six months, released earlier today. What’s interesting to me is the fact the cumulative growth gap between Minnesota and Wisconsin (relative to 2011M01) is forecasted to grow — rather than shrink — over the next six months.



For those who argue that because Minnesota fell further during the Great Recession so it should be growing faster than Wisconsin — well that’s just plain wrong (not that I believed in that particular snapback argument). Wisconsin fell 8.3% from 2007M12 to trough, while Minnesota fell 5.0% (both in log terms).

states_jul14.jpg


The cumulative growth gap between Kansas and the Nation is also forecasted to rise, from the current gap of 2.7%, to 3.2%, in just the next six months. The forecast from a simple ARIMA(1,1,1) estimated over the 1986M01-2014M07 period yields the same conclusion: the gap will widen.

Wisconsin Forecasted to Lag Further Behind Minnesota | Econbrowser
 
ludin said:
not a lie the total funding was 700B they spent about half of it. the majority of that was suppose to go to shovel ready projects that weren't shovel ready.
Click to expand...
Absolute lie.

The total amount of infrastructure spending in the ARRA was $111B, and it along with the rest of the TAX CUTS, State/Local fiscal relief, et al, had a multiplier greater than 1 making it successful. It was not large enough nor sustained long enough to turn around a $15TRILLION economy.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Absolute lie.

The total amount of infrastructure spending in the ARRA was $111B, and it along with the rest of the TAX CUTS, State/Local fiscal relief, et al, had a multiplier greater than 1 making it successful. It was not large enough nor sustained long enough to turn around a $15TRILLION economy.
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way to ignore everything i posted that says you are wrong but that is all i expect out of you. it pretty much sums up your posts.
i posted at least 3 or 4 links that showed you where the money went.

congrats to continue to stick to the liberal lie.

so the only false thing here is your post.
 
ludin said:
LOL :lamo

try postign (sic) something that actually is non propaganda.
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Oh well, if you are going full conspiracy on me, this is pointless.

i gave you at least 3 or 4 sources.
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Yeah....

Ron Hart, a libertarian syndicated op-ed humorist

Gun researcher John Lott

Sigh...
 
The only way that spending Tax Dollars in Stimulus Programs to build Infrastructure does anything other than run up huge national debt, while lining the pockets of Select Progressive-Fascists and Corporate Cronnie CEOs, ...

The only way it PAYs as a Nation, is to follow up by making that new Infrastructure WORK for the Nation, in the Civilian production of Industrial and Agricultural Wealth.

If the road doesn't help workers for a commercial factory get to work, or the trucks to bring in raw materials and carry away goods, it is all a complete waste.

It might solve a very short term unemployment problem, but it doesn't address the long range American Fiscal problems.

It is the Taxes paid on the production of commercial Industrial and Agricultural production that actually make the investment in infrastructure pay off.

But everything ELSE the Obama Administration has been doing, has been driving Industry and Research from our shores, to China and elsewhere.






Its kinda like getting a Bank Loan to go build a really nice shooting range, and saying that you've solved the problem of people littering by shooting tin cans in outskirts vacant lands.

What good does it do to have a shinny new shooting range, if the other half of your government is going house to house searching and seizing firearms?

If your fundamental outlook is that guns-are-bad, your never going to solve any gun related problem, you're only going to waste resources and limit freedoms.




The American Lefties start with the outlook that all Industry, Mining, and Agriculture is BAD, and they alone are wise enough to see this, making them morally superior, and deserving to be in charge by ANY means needed. Entrapment, Voter Fraud, Bribes, Corp Cronnieism, Abuse of Official Power (IRS), Embracing Radical Violent Religions, ANY Means!

Additionally, it means, in their minds, that they and their cohort deserve a free living, to be paid by the "EVIL" producers. Where the money for their free living is supposed to come from, when they've destroyed all of the Producers, I've never understood.

Perhaps a good portion of the American Left isn't really American at all, but rather a Propaganda Arm of China.

The reason that China is winning, everything!, is that they are much more practical Lefties who have totally embraced Industrial Wealth Production, while maintaining the labor force advantage of a brutal, totalitarian, communist slave labor State!

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clownboy said:
That was supposed to get started almost six years ago. Another failed Obama promise. The money was thrown away on other broken toys.
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What hogwash. The stimulus of 2009 and 2010 was $788 billion, spread out over two years. It provided aid to states to retain teaches and police; infrastructure programs and 40% went to tax-cuts.

Your thesis that this stimulus was I tended to fix all broken infrastructure in the nation is sadly misguided.
 
Kurmugeon said:
The only way that spending Tax Dollars in Stimulus Programs to build Infrastructure does anything other than run up huge national debt, while lining the pockets of Select Progressive-Fascists and Corporate Cronnie CEOs, ...

The only way it PAYs as a Nation, is to follow up by making that new Infrastructure WORK for the Nation, in the Civilian production of Industrial and Agricultural Wealth.

If the road doesn't help workers for a commercial factory get to work, or the trucks to bring in raw materials and carry away goods, it is all a complete waste.

It might solve a very short term unemployment problem, but it doesn't address the long range American Fiscal problems.

It is the Taxes paid on the production of commercial Industrial and Agricultural production that actually make the investment in infrastructure pay off.

But everything ELSE the Obama Administration has been doing, has been driving Industry and Research from our shores, to China and elsewhere.






Its kinda like getting a Bank Loan to go build a really nice shooting range, and saying that you've solved the problem of people littering by shooting tin cans in outskirts vacant lands.

What good does it do to have a shinny new shooting range, if the other half of your government is going house to house searching and seizing firearms?

If your fundamental outlook is that guns-are-bad, your never going to solve any gun related problem, you're only going to waste resources and limit freedoms.

-
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You post is pretty much contrary to macro economics. When the economy is weak from too little demand, it is not only appropriate for government to use fiscal stimulus to boost demand but it is advisable. When these conditions exist, even the Broken Window Fallacy is not a fallacy.
 
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