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Thread: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

  1. #51
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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin;1063740573

    :doh

    not a lie the total funding was 700B they spent about half of it. the majority of that was suppose to go to shovel ready projects that weren't shovel ready.
    the ones that supposedly were they spent millions of dollars per job that once the job was done the people were fired if the project got off the ground at all.

    It had nothing to do with being large enough as it did the states got the money and sured up their lack of funding with the money. IE the money wasn't used for the projects.

    [url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/11/01/the-reason-that-shovel-ready-stimulus-didnt-work-is-that-there-wasnt-any-stimulus/
    The Reason That Shovel Ready Stimulus Didn't Work Is That There Wasn't Any Stimulus - Forbes[/url]

    The fact still remains that we did the whole infrastructure non-sense will make jobs non-sense it was a failure.

    the reason the so called stimulus didn't work is because of this right here.
    Ron Hart: Where did the stimulus money go? - The Orange County Register

    Where did stimulus money really go? | Fox News

    the stimulus didn't do anything because it was a huge payoff to obama lackies.


    The meme that the money was spent to enrich Obama friends is a long debunked right-wing lie.
    http://www.politifact.com/subjects/stimulus/?page=2
    Last edited by MTAtech; 09-11-14 at 08:22 AM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Absolute lie.

    The total amount of infrastructure spending in the ARRA was $111B, and it along with the rest of the TAX CUTS, State/Local fiscal relief, et al, had a multiplier greater than 1 making it successful. It was not large enough nor sustained long enough to turn around a $15TRILLION economy.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, we know Obama lied about " shovel ready " jobs.

    We would have to be pretty stupid to trust that guy again.

    Who knows, he might even try to restart his failed "green jobs " initiative again

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    Questions for Debate:

    Is there any credence to this model?

    Can it be countered or stopped? How?

    When the American common people are force to default on personal debt en-masse, doesn't it follow that the American Government will also have to default as well?

    Does the solution lie in Government Action, or in the Private Sector, or Both?

    Is it to late?

    -
    Yes, there is credence in the model. The model is just part of a bigger picture of what Multi-Cultural Internationalists (MCIs, the rulers on the left) and Corporate Global Expansionists (CGEs, the rulers on the right) have caused and are continuing to cause unabated in their strange-bedfellows partnership that harms American citizens in the name of misguided ideology and profits-at-any-price respectively.

    Short of major nationalism in America to fuel incentive to create policies that favor Americans, no, there's nothing that can be done to stop or counter what MCIs and CGEs have been doing via their so-called "global economy": the exporting of American living-wage jobs to third-world nations and thereby importing third-world poverty to Americans, third-world poverty that the rising debt is only and unsuccessfully temporarily functioning to camouflage.

    With regard to the debt-default dominoes, yes, clearly, America itself will be pushed closer to default on a number of debt items as a result.

    The foundation of the solution lies in neither government or private sector action, but first must manifest in we the people becoming aware of the damage the MCI and CGE policies are doing to Americans and that we are all one big family, a family of Americans, both rich and poor alike, and that the vast majority of us All are going to suffer tremendously if the problem isn't solved. We The People of the United States of America -- its Citizens -- must recognize that we are indeed One, that liberty and justice For All Americans hinges in the balance of solving this potentially country-killing problem. Only then can We The People en masse compel both government and private sector changes necessary to what is tantamount to saving our country from inevitable one-world-government annexation.

    It's not too late .. but it's nearing being too late. The more American citizens are brought down by this increasing burden the less energy, self-esteem and hope they will have that their own political action will be of positive value in solving the problem. And, since the solution to the problem is centrist in nature, because we have only two parties with power, the liberal Democrats and the conservative Republicans, there is no centrist solution policies/candidates that will arise from them, and all that will happen from this politics-as-usual dualism is a continuing division of Americans against each other in so many and irrelevant ways that render us powerless as a unit instead of the bringing of us all together as One United Force that we need right now.

    The solution lies in creating and marketing a centrist political party .. and fast.

    See my signature.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, there is credence in the model. The model is just part of a bigger picture of what Multi-Cultural Internationalists (MCIs, the rulers on the left) and Corporate Global Expansionists (CGEs, the rulers on the right) have caused and are continuing to cause unabated in their strange-bedfellows partnership that harms American citizens in the name of misguided ideology and profits-at-any-price respectively.

    Short of major nationalism in America to fuel incentive to create policies that favor Americans, no, there's nothing that can be done to stop or counter what MCIs and CGEs have been doing via their so-called "global economy": the exporting of American living-wage jobs to third-world nations and thereby importing third-world poverty to Americans, third-world poverty that the rising debt is only and unsuccessfully temporarily functioning to camouflage.

    With regard to the debt-default dominoes, yes, clearly, America itself will be pushed closer to default on a number of debt items as a result.

    The foundation of the solution lies in neither government or private sector action, but first must manifest in we the people becoming aware of the damage the MCI and CGE policies are doing to Americans and that we are all one big family, a family of Americans, both rich and poor alike, and that the vast majority of us All are going to suffer tremendously if the problem isn't solved. We The People of the United States of America -- its Citizens -- must recognize that we are indeed One, that liberty and justice For All Americans hinges in the balance of solving this potentially country-killing problem. Only then can We The People en masse compel both government and private sector changes necessary to what is tantamount to saving our country from inevitable one-world-government annexation.

    It's not too late .. but it's nearing being too late. The more American citizens are brought down by this increasing burden the less energy, self-esteem and hope they will have that their own political action will be of positive value in solving the problem. And, since the solution to the problem is centrist in nature, because we have only two parties with power, the liberal Democrats and the conservative Republicans, there is no centrist solution policies/candidates that will arise from them, and all that will happen from this politics-as-usual dualism is a continuing division of Americans against each other in so many and irrelevant ways that render us powerless as a unit instead of the bringing of us all together as One United Force that we need right now.

    The solution lies in creating and marketing a centrist political party .. and fast.

    See my signature.
    In response to the portion above in bold, and not the rest of the diatribe, the U.S. apart from "clearly" pushing for default, America has no intention of defaulting at all. In fact, no sovereign nation with its own currency ever has to default. One can always monetize the debt buy paying off the debt with newly minted currency. But in the current case, U.S. debt is quite sustainable.

    We already have a centrist party, it's called the Democratic Party.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    In response to the portion above in bold, and not the rest of the diatribe, the U.S. apart from "clearly" pushing for default, America has no intention of defaulting at all. In fact, no sovereign nation with its own currency ever has to default. One can always monetize the debt buy paying off the debt with newly minted currency. But in the current case, U.S. debt is quite sustainable. We already have a centrist party, it's called the Democratic Party.
    Everything I posted in my previous post here is true -- everything.

    I realize that you liberals don't like to hear that your clearly liberal, not centrist Democrat party is partially responsible for the problem, and that you thus have a tendency to deny that there is a problem at all.

    But in so doing you do harm to your fellow Americans.

    It's time to put partisan politics-as-usual aside.

    I strongly suggest that all those with "liberal" and "conservative" listed as their lean in the margin to the left of their posts lay down their ideological cudgels and start finding common ground to create a One Unit centrist force to solve this dire threat to All Americans.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Everything I posted in my previous post here is true -- everything.

    I realize that you liberals don't like to hear that your clearly liberal, not centrist Democrat party is partially responsible for the problem, and that you thus have a tendency to deny that there is a problem at all.

    But in so doing you do harm to your fellow Americans.

    It's time to put partisan politics-as-usual aside.

    I strongly suggest that all those with "liberal" and "conservative" listed as their lean in the margin to the left of their posts lay down their ideological cudgels and start finding common ground to create a One Unit centrist force to solve this dire threat to All Americans.
    Re-asserting that you are right is not debate.

    The fact that you call yourself a "centrist" does not make you one. You give yourself away as a right-winger when you consider the current Democratic Party "liberal." As the graph below shows, Northern Democrats are about as liberal as they were in the 1970s but Republicans are FAR more conservative than they have historically been. (I factor out Southern Democrats because they moved to the R Party.)


    Source: Political Polarization

    There was a time when Republicans accepted a social safety net as desirable. There was a time when Republicans did not denounce the poor as "moochers." There was a time when Republicans respected labor. Now, if one is not a rich person, I mean "job creator," one isn't valued by Republicans. One really only needs to read the 1956 Republican Platform to realize how off-the-cliff this once great political party has devolved.

    So, if you are blaming both-sides for not getting work done, you have misdirected anger. The Democrats are following successful policies that they always have. It's the Republicans who are different. If like Republicans declaring that the earth was flat, against Democratic opposition, and you characterize this centrism as “Parties Differ on Shape of Planet.”
    Last edited by MTAtech; 09-11-14 at 11:09 AM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    re-asserting that you are right is not debate.

    The fact that you call yourself a "centrist" does not make you one. You give yourself away as a right-winger when you consider the current Democratic Party "liberal." As the graph below shows, Northern Democrats are about as liberal as they were in the 1970s but Republicans are FAR more conservative than they have historically been. I factor out Southern Democrats because they moved to the R Party.)


    Source: Political Polarization
    Your post is part obvious projection (your first three sentences) and part meaningless digression via esoterically presented erroneous data (the rest of it).

    A word to the wise: if you care about your fellow Americans, don't let your liberal left-winger or conservative right-winger ideology continue to create division among Americans.

    Find a way to transcend your polarized ideology and its polemic paradigm.

    Then move to the center, the center, where you recognize the problems created by both the Democrats and the Republicans, the Multi-Cultural Internationalists and the Corporate Global Expansionists respectively, who are making life so painful for so many of your fellow Americans.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your post is part obvious projection (your first three sentences) and part meaningless digression via esoterically presented erroneous data (the rest of it).

    A word to the wise: if you care about your fellow Americans, don't let your liberal left-winger or conservative right-winger ideology continue to create division among Americans.

    Find a way to transcend your polarized ideology and its polemic paradigm.

    Then move to the center, the center, where you recognize the problems created by both the Democrats and the Republicans, the Multi-Cultural Internationalists and the Corporate Global Expansionists respectively, who are making life so painful for so many of your fellow Americans.
    That's the centrist cop-out. Last year, the Republicans shut down the government. A few years ago, they created a crisis over the debt ceiling that resulted in the government getting its bond rating lowered. This action by Republicans was taking America hostage, threatening to undermine the economy and disrupt the essential business of government unless they get policy concessions they would never have been able to enact through legislation. And Democrats, who would have been justified in rejecting this extortion altogether, had gone a long way toward meeting those Republican demands.

    While you try to preach as there is equivalence on both sides -- equally wrong and equally at fault on any issue, never mind the facts, there is not equivalence.

    Let me remind you that this thread is about debt, which the OP characterizes as a crisis, when economists say it is not a crisis.
    Last edited by MTAtech; 09-11-14 at 11:21 AM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That's the centrist cop-out. Last year, the Republicans shut down the government. A few years ago, they created a crisis over the debt ceiling that resulted in the government getting its bond rating lowered. This action by Republicans was taking America hostage, threatening to undermine the economy and disrupt the essential business of government unless they get policy concessions they would never have been able to enact through legislation. And Democrats, who would have been justified in rejecting this extortion altogether, had gone a long way toward meeting those Republican demands.

    While you try to preach as there is equivalence on both sides -- equally wrong and equally at fault on any issue, never mind the facts, there is not equivalence.

    Let me remind you that this thread is about debt, which the OP characterizes as a crisis, when economists say it is not a crisis.


    13s5l11a9r1e7b3i17L15
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The coming 'tsunami of debt' and financial crisis in America

    One thing that scares me is that the hedge-fund managers, like Soros, are taking long term positions in the markets right now with S&P stocks and 10yr T-bonds though they're keeping some short positions for profits. If they see something coming, or suspect an asset bubble correction from the FED pulling back on QE, it'll be the economy and retail class that takes the hit.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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