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Thread: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

  1. #31
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Lack of empathy is 50%. In fact, it's the textbook definition of sociopath. It takes a numb person to shoot up a school full of kids, or a movie theater, or to pour a bucket of **** and piss onto the head of another.

    Yes, your autistic son lacks outward signs of empathy. It's why he's likely anti social. But that doesn't mean he's a future serial killer.

    The desire to dominate is the other half, the id. But the id is, for most of us, balanced out, kept in check, if you will, by our empathy, and our ego. We don't act out on our aggressive impulses because because we can empathize; gunnery sgt hartman said it best in Full Metal Jacket. "It is a hard HEART that kills!" That was the entire point of boot camp. To break a person down, destroy their ego, bring them closer to a more basic, and less human, being. Someone who listens less to their empathy, and focuses more fully on "objective completion". Why? Because war is in many ways an inhuman act. As we have progressed sociologically, civilization has placed more tenants upon us. Though shalt not kill. Killing others was a simple fact of life in pre civilization. We have a lot of evidence backing that up. But we have suppressed those basic instincts with indoctrination, a necessary step to have ever larger societies.

    And yet, lately, in the last 10 years or so, I'm seeing a shift, at least as far as younger people go. Once upon a time, there was 2, maybe three school bullies. And they were bad. They were physical. Now? Well, now, it seems, almost everyone bullies someone else, when given the oportunity. Sure, not by pushing or slapping someone, or by throwing dirt at their face, etc. It's gone online, and it's verbal, now. It's common to see one person bullied by HUNDREDS now, online. And sure, it's easy for us to say, no problem, just unplug. But it's not that easy, is it? Facebook, twitter, and whatever else is out there...these are the means by which these kids interact with their peers. The advice of "unplugging" to escape bullying is no better than telling your child not to go to school for fear of bullies, or to sit by themselves in the cafeteria, and to stay off the playground at recess. It seems to me, bullying has become MUCH more prevalent than it was in my day, it's just less visible. A nasty comment on your wall or whatever in facebook never gave anyone a black eye.

    And so I ask myself why. And the only conclusion I can come up with, when thinking about this, and then seeing stories like the OP, is that kids are becoming more emotionally detached. They are not developing empathy as early as they used to, as folks my age did when we were kids. The instinct to dominate, to seek the highest elevation over others, is unchanged, and likely will remain so.
    You know why people call words, bullying? Because either they don't have the strength of character to ignore it or deal with it. That and they, are stupid. Words are not bullying. Never have been. Intimidation? maybe. Rude and crude? absolutely. Mean? yes. bullying? WTF are you smoking? People have always been vicious little ****s when they are not face to face with whomever they are talking smack about. I guarantee they wouldn't say that tripe to your face, with very rare exception. Now society allows children who by definition are not fully grown with the associated mouth filters, and fully developed brains, roaming loose on the internet. We expect it to be all daisies and stuff? Get real. Children are by nature vicious little vermin operating by instinct with absolutely zilch for empathy. The smaller they are the less they have. They are wild human beings. Its what WE were and are, apex predators from a not too distant past were it was eat or be eaten, do or die. Its a relic of our genetic past. It is our jobs as parents to civilize our children so they may go and and prosper for a time. It seems like there are more nasty people when in reality its the way its always been, just now everybody sees ALL of it. Everybody thinks the monkeys are really cute until they see them in action in the wild. Then they go holy ****. The internet just exposes us hairless monkeys in our natural state.
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    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    When I was about 7, or 8, we lived in a neighborhood where a (What we called them then) retarded kid who was about 14, 15 lived. All of us "gang" of kids picked on him constantly. It is something I regret even to this day, and why I have a special place in my heart for protecting kids when I see this happening to them. I can't imagine the pain I and my "friends" caused this poor kid who's only crime was that he was different than all of us. I shared that not to provide insight into my soul, but because even if it allows some to past judgment on me, it is criticism that is rightly deserved, and something I fell shame, and absolutely guilty for, and will for the rest of my life.

    Tim-
    You feel shame now. Did you when you were younger feel shame when you bullied that kid? I am willing to bet you were like most kids and following the pack and didn't really feel any at the time. That makes you normal.
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    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  3. #33
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Interesting theory.


    Without necessarily agreeing entirely, let's look at something that changed in the past 20 years.... the rise of the Internet.


    Could anyone here disagree that many people seem far more inclined to be rude and callous to others amid the anonymity of the Internet, than is normally the case in FTF RL? Well, if you've been on DP long you'd have a hard time disagreeing.... and DP is moderated more strictly than most internet forums! Yet we still see a lot more rudeness, if not downright hatefulness, than you normally see in FTF interactions between adults.

    Reason? You can be rude, crude, lewd, mean, petty, spiteful and hateful on the Internet.... and generally be insulated from your victim's immediate reaction. They can't punch you through the computer screen. If they even know who you really are, they can't get at you until much later after the initial fury and indignation has perhaps worn off or cooled down... and I think that makes a huge difference.


    Another reason I think those who primarily socialize on the internet are often less empathetic than they would be IRL FTF, is because they don't directly and personally SEE their victim's emotional response, the hurt and pain on their face, that they would in person.


    And over time perhaps some of these folks become more insensitive in general, enough so to carry their online behavior into the RW.


    Now we've got a generation of children reaching adulthood who grew up with the Internet....



    Makes you wonder, anyway.
    How long do they keep being insensitive in the real world? In the real world there is consequence for action. Being a douche bag gets your ass kicked eventually by somebody who wont tolerate it. I personally thinks the internet is like the tree our hairy ancestors hung out in. They could fling poo at the lions all day long with impunity. The lions would get pissed off but couldn't do much to the monkeys except look at the really mean like and roar occasionally. But if a monkey ventured too low in the tree or got down on the ground, the monkeys could fling all the poo they wanted right up till they became kitty chow.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  4. #34
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    And yet, lately, in the last 10 years or so, I'm seeing a shift, at least as far as younger people go.....
    According to older people, the youth have been declining for millennia. 20 years ago, the culprits were heavy metal music, D&D, video games, the list goes on.

    What's happening is that as we become more civilized, and as we are exposed to less real-world violence, our tolerance for antisocial behavior increases. No one would have batted an eye at someone mistreating an autistic kid in 1950; today, it's national news.

    That's another thing you have to consider -- the omnipresent news media. 20 years ago, you didn't have the kind of rapid-fire high-connectivity media that you do today. If an autistic kid got bullied in Texas in 1994, you would not have heard about it. Today, small stuff like this can easily go viral.

    Which leads us to a third thing. The "ice bucket challenge," which makes no sense to me whatsoever, managed to raise over $100 million for a charity that usually raises $3 million in a good year. That's an awful lot of good will you're overlooking.

  5. #35
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    It is impossible to believe young people or any people could do this. "Cruelty" has been forever redefined.

    BAY VILLAGE, Ohio - Comedian Drew Carey is offering to help police find those involved in dumping a bucket of urine and feces on a special-needs teen in Ohio who was reportedly told the prank was part of the "Ice Bucket Challenge." The Cleveland native posted on his Twitter account Saturday that he's willing to donate $10,000 if police in suburban Bay Village want to start a reward fund.
    The 14-year-old boy's mother found a cellphone video of teenagers dumping the bucket on her autistic son.
    Bay Village High School organized a vigil for the teen before a football game on Friday and school officials have condemned the prank.
    One day, those same kids will be every bit as horrified as you are, at similar future incidents. Empathy and self-awareness don't count for much without the experience to refine them; raw capacity might as well be inability, gone untutored by perspective. By and large, I find such outrage at juvenule delinquency to be misplaced. Adults perpetrate the most grievous atrocities, and with no such naivete as an excuse. It's a mistake to misattribute character traits, via a lens of maturity that's inapplicable to the subject.

    It is impossible to believe young people or any people could do this.
    You mean on this planet, or....?

    "Cruelty" has been forever redefined.
    Yeah, that Hitler. What a wag.

  6. #36
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I do not think that autistic people can become sociopaths, irrelevant that both lack empathy.
    The guy that shot up Sandyhook was autistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  7. #37
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    According to older people, the youth have been declining for millennia. 20 years ago, the culprits were heavy metal music, D&D, video games, the list goes on.

    What's happening is that as we become more civilized, and as we are exposed to less real-world violence, our tolerance for antisocial behavior increases. No one would have batted an eye at someone mistreating an autistic kid in 1950; today, it's national news.

    That's another thing you have to consider -- the omnipresent news media. 20 years ago, you didn't have the kind of rapid-fire high-connectivity media that you do today. If an autistic kid got bullied in Texas in 1994, you would not have heard about it. Today, small stuff like this can easily go viral.

    Which leads us to a third thing. The "ice bucket challenge," which makes no sense to me whatsoever, managed to raise over $100 million for a charity that usually raises $3 million in a good year. That's an awful lot of good will you're overlooking.
    How many instances of mass school shootings occurred in the entire decade of the 50s? 40s? 60s?





    How many mass school shootings happened in 2000-2010?


    There is a shift, whether we as society choose to see it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  8. #38
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    Re: Human Cruelty Re-Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The guy that shot up Sandyhook was autistic.
    Extremely rare then.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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