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Thread: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

  1. #61
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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yet it wasn't commercial banks that were subject to the ACRA that made most of those loans. they were made by mortgage companies which were exempt from those laws, and it was the high failure rate of those mortgage companies that caused our near collapse. commercial banks didn't have any financial crises until the value of all mortgage holdings was drug down by the panic which happened after the failure of companies who were highly involved with mortgage backed securities (and those institutions weren't subject to the ACRA).

    The vast majority of the loans made by commercial banks were prime rate loans, and would have been made with or without the ACRA. think about it, why would any bank open a branch in a particular community? Wouldn't it only be because they felt that there was sufficient demand in that community to support a bank? If so, then wouldn't those banks have been able to easily find enough borrowers in those community to meet the ACRA guidlines?

    I realize that you are just repeating what you have heard far right extremest talking heads claim, but you should really research stuff before you repeat it. that claim is 99.9% bogus.
    Wrong.

    In 1998 Janet Reno gave a speech bragging about the effectiveness of Clintons 1995 CRA changes that allowed the Federal government to dictate how lenders approved potential borrowers

    She named over 13 successful DOJ lawsuites so far against lenders and one against NationWide Insurance.

    She also vowed to continue the lawsuites and mentioned the importance of Banks providing " Equal credit ".

    And the DOJ wasn't the only agency or even the only people targeting banks with fair lending lawsuits

    HUD targeted lenders ( 2.1 Billion lawsuite against ACUBank ) and so did attorney's like Barrack Obama.

    After Obama got elected Eric Holder continued these bank shakedowns. ( Wells Fargo )

    So you're absolutely full of it.

    How about you take a whole 15 minutes and do a bit of objective research instead of making stuff up off the top of your head ?

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I agree, however if they can figure out how to survive without working, then more power to them, it doesn't harm me a bit (except for possibly them drawing means tested benefits). If they really absolutely needed a job to survive, they would never have stopped looking for work, they would take a min wage job, or cut grass or sell scrap metal, or play an intrument for tips on a street corner or do something else useful.
    Nobody in America, theoretically, needs a job to survive.

    Food stamps, shelters, Medicaid/Medicare and other forms of welfare make that a virtual thing of the past.


    It's not about surviving, it's about living.

    And I strongly suspect that many Americans do not consider surviving with enough food and shelter to not perish as 'living'...merely existing.



    And for me, to merely exist is not enough.

    If all I can do is 'exist' and not 'live'...pass.

    I am afraid of dying.

    But I am FAR more afraid of living badly.
    Last edited by DA60; 09-06-14 at 05:24 PM.

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Wrong.

    In 1998 Janet Reno gave a speech bragging about the effectiveness of Clintons 1995 CRA changes that allowed the Federal government to dictate how lenders approved potential borrowers

    She named over 13 successful DOJ lawsuites so far against lenders and one against NationWide Insurance.

    She also vowed to continue the lawsuites and mentioned the importance of Banks providing " Equal credit ".

    And the DOJ wasn't the only agency or even the only people targeting banks with fair lending lawsuits

    HUD targeted lenders ( 2.1 Billion lawsuite against ACUBank ) and so did attorney's like Barrack Obama.

    After Obama got elected Eric Holder continued these bank shakedowns. ( Wells Fargo )

    So you're absolutely full of it.

    How about you take a whole 15 minutes and do a bit of objective research instead of making stuff up off the top of your head ?
    I'm not disputing the fact that the CRA existed, only the fact that it was the cause of the mortgage bubble/crash.

    so were the majority of foreclosed mortgages issued by commercial banks subject to the ACRA or entities not subject to it? Look it up, you will be surprised.

    Charts for the “Facts of the Economic Crisis” Column | The Big Picture

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yet it wasn't commercial banks that were subject to the ACRA that made most of those loans. they were made by mortgage companies which were exempt from those laws, and it was the high failure rate of those mortgage companies that caused our near collapse. commercial banks didn't have any financial crises until the value of all mortgage holdings was drug down by the panic which happened after the failure of companies who were highly involved with mortgage backed securities (and those institutions weren't subject to the ACRA).

    The vast majority of the loans made by commercial banks were prime rate loans, and would have been made with or without the ACRA. think about it, why would any bank open a branch in a particular community? Wouldn't it only be because they felt that there was sufficient demand in that community to support a bank? If so, then wouldn't those banks have been able to easily find enough borrowers in those community to meet the ACRA guidlines?

    I realize that you are just repeating what you have heard far right extremest talking heads claim, but you should really research stuff before you repeat it. that claim is 99.9% bogus.
    I can't believe that there are people on here who blame mortgage companies for the idiots who purchased homes that they could not afford to pay for. The idiots who signed the paperwork for their purchase are the ones to blame. If they are going to be stupid enough to purchase a home they can not afford they better be tough, or at least learn how to read.

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm not disputing the fact that the CRA existed, only the fact that it was the cause of the mortgage bubble/crash.

    so were the majority of foreclosed mortgages issued by commercial banks subject to the ACRA or entities not subject to it? Look it up, you will be surprised.

    Charts for the “Facts of the Economic Crisis” Column | The Big Picture

    Wait, are you seriously trying to condense down the entire Sub-prime Bubble into two years ? Your'e pulling a VERN then ?

    Fine, you post a hack chart, and I'll give the " Right wing " response...

    Unfortunately the Democrat strategy IS to condense down the entire Sub-prime housing bubble, from beginning to end to 2 years. 2004-2006.

    Even though Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac got into the Sub-prime business in 1998.

    Freddie Mac Jumps into Subprime Mortgages - American Banker 175th Year Flashback Article - American Banker 175th Year Flashback

    " Freddie Mac is diving into subprime lending, ending months of speculation over how deeply the agency would go into the burgeoning market.

    Freddie Mac and its rival, Fannie Mae, outlined their approaches to lending to tarnished borrowers at the Mortgage Bankers Association's annual meeting Tuesday in New York. Their participation could accelerate growth in a sector that has become a new frontier for many lenders and, ultimately, could bring rates down for borrowers.

    Chairman Leland C. Brendsel said Freddie will begin buying lower-quality loans over the coming year and proceed further down the credit spectrum in 1999. "We will buy all the loans we can that meet our parameters and can be priced profitably."

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    And in 1999 Clinton Pushed them to enter into even more Sub-prime purchases...

    Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

    " In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

    The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans "

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    And in 2000 Andrew Cuomo committed the GSEs to purchase 2.4 Trillion in Sub-prime loans....
    HUD Archives: Cuomo Announces Action to Provide $2.4 Trillion in Mortgages for Affordable Housing for 28.1 Million Families

    " Housing and Urban Development Secretary Andrew Cuomo today announced a policy to require the nation's two largest housing finance companies to buy $2.4 trillion in mortgages over the next 10 years to provide affordable housing for about 28.1 million low- and moderate-income families."

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-==-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-

    This way the Democrats can blame George Bush for everything and use the ridiculous chart you just posted to back up this asinine assertion.

    So lets shoot down this ridiculous narrative by starting with Horsemanship rates. From 1993 to 2000, they rose 5 %. ( 63 % to 68 % )

    Under Bush ( 2000- 2008 ) they rose another 1 % and a fraction of that was actually Sub-prime.

    Your dubious Chart suggest that there were enough Sub-prime loans Made ( within a 1 % increase in Home-ownership rates ) then securitized and then distributed out into Capital Markets via CDO tranches all over the world and in just 2 years, to cause a collapse that washed out nearly 60 Trillion dollars in wealth worldwide AND to Bankrupt two Iconic American Institutions leaving them holding over 5 TRILLION dollars in debt and a good portion that debt was either Sub-prime loans or securities backed by Sub-Prime loans.

    To prove the GSEs purchased TONS of trash debt we can start with the fact that the FED via QE agreed to buy up 1.5 TRILLION dollars in worthless " AAA '' securities and recent Law suites filed by Eric Holder AND FHFA made public the Hundreds of Billions of dollars of worthless Securities that Fannie and Freddie KNOWINGLY purchased.

    So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased over 2 Trillion in trash loans and securities and most likely allot more than that.

    Anyway, Capital Markets are proportionally sized to the size of the Country they reside in. When untold amounts of toxic MBSs went belly up all at once it corrupted CDO's filled with other investments to go belly up.

    So this partisan assertion that Sub-prime only started in 2004 just doesn't add up at all. It's IMPOSSIBLE that a small amount of Trash loans over two years would bring cause a Financial Meltdown that extended out to Capital Markets all over the world and bankrupted two iconic American Financial Institutions

    Anyway, the idiot who created that chart apparently doesn't possess a shred of integrity. Otherwise he would have NAMED which lender made the vast majority of those worthless loans POST 2004.

    So I'll name the lender. It was CountryWide. He probably didn't mention CountryWide because Fannie Mae was the primary consumer of their trash loans AND because CountryWide gave out VIP loans to a certain Democrat Politician who served on the Senate Banking Committee,

    Dodd and Countrywide - WSJ

    Here's the Fannie and Freddie Foundation bragging about CountryWide in 2004....

    " Countrywide tends to follow the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE programs. …

    When necessary—in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example—Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice now accepted by the GSEs "

    I could continue. Post more facts that predate your narrative by a good 10 years, but something tells me you'll just continue to define the Financial Collapse according to your own subjective terms, and not the facts.
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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yet it wasn't commercial banks that were subject to the ACRA that made most of those loans. they were made by mortgage companies which were exempt from those laws, and it was the high failure rate of those mortgage companies that caused our near collapse. commercial banks didn't have any financial crises until the value of all mortgage holdings was drug down by the panic which happened after the failure of companies who were highly involved with mortgage backed securities (and those institutions weren't subject to the ACRA).

    The vast majority of the loans made by commercial banks were prime rate loans, and would have been made with or without the ACRA. think about it, why would any bank open a branch in a particular community? Wouldn't it only be because they felt that there was sufficient demand in that community to support a bank? If so, then wouldn't those banks have been able to easily find enough borrowers in those community to meet the ACRA guidlines?

    I realize that you are just repeating what you have heard far right extremest talking heads claim, but you should really research stuff before you repeat it. that claim is 99.9% bogus.
    The Government Did It - Forbes
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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    It's IMPOSSIBLE that a small amount of Trash loans over two years would bring cause a Financial Meltdown that extended out to Capital Markets all over the world and bankrupted two iconic American Financial Institutions
    Not when the house of cards, the highly leveraged tranched, chopped up MBS that were made up of these overvalued properties began to have high default levels. Once they began to topple then whole thing collapsed because of all of the high levels of leverage these investment houses were operating under. They could not begin to cover small losses, the CDO's multiplied the effect. You still have no concept of how brittle the PRIVATE banking sector was within mortgage securities.

    "Malfeasance[edit]
    A March 2010 report by the court-appointed examiner indicated that Lehman executives regularly used cosmetic accounting gimmicks at the end of each quarter to make its finances appear less shaky than they really were. This practice was a type of repurchase agreement that temporarily removed securities from the company's balance sheet. However, unlike typical repurchase agreements, these deals were described by Lehman as the outright sale of securities and created "a materially misleading picture of the firm’s financial condition in late 2007 and 2008."[43]

    Subprime mortgage crisis[edit]
    In August 2007 the firm closed its subprime lender, BNC Mortgage, eliminating 1,200 positions in 23 locations, and took an after-tax charge of $25 million and a $27 million reduction in goodwill. Lehman said that poor market conditions in the mortgage space "necessitated a substantial reduction in its resources and capacity in the subprime space".[44]

    In 2008, Lehman faced an unprecedented loss to the continuing subprime mortgage crisis. Lehman's loss was a result of having held on to large positions in subprime and other lower-rated mortgage tranches when securitizing the underlying mortgages; whether Lehman did this because it was simply unable to sell the lower-rated bonds, or made a conscious decision to hold them, is unclear. In any event, huge losses accrued in lower-rated mortgage-backed securities throughout 2008. In the second fiscal quarter, Lehman reported losses of $2.8 billion and was forced to sell off $6 billion in assets.[45] In the first half of 2008 alone, Lehman stock lost 73% of its value as the credit market continued to tighten.[45] In August 2008, Lehman reported that it intended to release 6% of its work force, 1,500 people, just ahead of its third-quarter-reporting deadline in September.[45]
    "
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Government Did It - Forbes
    The Ayn Randian version.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    PS...it is wonderful to see Fenton back to his thread hijacking ways again.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Nope, that's not what happened. What caused the recession was the government forcing the banks to make those risky loans.
    That sure as hell isn't true. Banks would give anyone a loan with little or no income verification because of greed and the shortsightedness that real estate values would just keep rising. Liar loans, no down loans and all sorts of hybrids then sold off as mortgage backed securities to even greedier investors all backed up by insurance that was unable to cover anything (see AIG) and given a triple AAA credit rating by the scummy rating agencies. I worked for one of the largest US banks for 18 years and quite involved in the accounting for MBS, FX, Derivatives all insured by AMBAC, CAPMAC, MBIA and all the deals rated by S&P and Moodys. A complete cluster f@#k. I went on an interview just before the crash with a company that just dealt with subprime loans. Needless to say they are no longer in business.
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