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Record 92,269,000 Not in Labor Force; Participation Rate Matches 36-Year Low

eohrnberger said:
It's still disconcerting that so many don't participate in the labor force. To my mind, the human benefits from work, kinda like occupational therapy. Having so many sit about idle, not producing, not caring for themselves, expecting everyone else that produces to provide for them, is really corrosive to those people receiving in many ways. No, they need meaningful work, and help to find it for them, if needed.
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I see components of fascism in that philosophy.
 
Its always amazing how one can says its "pocket change" when its over $60 billion and not their money. I guess you'd call that label progressives but I call them criminals stealing from those who work hard and are forced to pay taxes for those who don't bother.


upsideguy said:
I quickly accounted for 90 out of 92 million persons classified as "out of the workforce" and you are worried about the proverbial "pocket change".... the very little I did not account for.

Sorry, but the Con(trarian)s keep talking about the 92 million "not in the workforce" as if this where some type of economic calamity (see OP), without ever telling you what the number means (probably because they do not know, and as typical with Cons, do not want to know)... tried of people recklessly throwing facts around, I decided to find out for myself (I know, rare in these parts)... the chart I posted earlier accounts for 90 million of 92 million.

Guess what? CONtrary to what the Cons want you to believe, 90 million of this number (and probably more) have legitimate reasons to be "out of the workforce"... yet the Con(trarian)s want you to believe that this 90 million number should be outrage ("90 million people not working") suggesting they are "discouraged" or "deadbeats".... The real outrage is those that use this number to try to "incite" an outcome, such as was done by the OP.

There is nothing outrageous in the number; there is only something outrageous in the disingenuous use of this number by right wing porn sites and the ignoramuses that visit them. I did not account for 2 million people in my quick and dirty view (perhaps you can) as the 2 million were not the point; the 90 million were.



As to student loans, they may be one of the best benefits the government offers. Once upon a time, when we had state universities, we had low tuition (even free tuition in some places)... but since states have universally pulled funding from their university systems, higher education is out of reach for far too many.... while I appreciate the fact that the Cons would prefer to keep "those people" in their place..... history has shown that a society moves forward when their best and brightest have an opportunity to lead. Keeping talent down simply because they can't afford an education is not in the best interests of any forward thinking society (which, is not what America is anymore, I get it)

I, for one, am a beneficiary of student loans. They financed 1/2 my education. I paid back every penny, with interest... and my taxes resulting from my earnings differential post college v not going to college certainly pays for student loans of many, many other kids. Society got a good return on investment from me, as they will from most partaking of student loans.

First, it is almost impossible to get out of paying your student loan as they are not forgiven in a bankruptcy...but, if you have a problem with student loans, we probably should have better regulation of diploma mills that exist solely to get students to apply for student loans and pay the school...without ever expecting the student to succeed in their 4th rate "school"). Maybe not allow colleges or schools to be "for profit"...

Diploma Mills and Accreditation
Students at For-Profit Colleges Are Most Likely to Default on Loans, Report Says - Government - The Chronicle of Higher Education
http://www.ifpm.nifc.gov/hr/opm/OPM_Strengthening_Oversight_Diploma_Mills.pdf
Diploma Mills | Consumer Information
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Karl said:
I see components of fascism in that philosophy.
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Does this mean that you acknowledge that there are some who are able bodied but refuse to do any work at all, and would rather sit and collect?
 
eohrnberger said:
Does this mean that you acknowledge that there are some who are able bodied but refuse to do any work at all, and would rather sit and collect?
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Apparently that is about 2.5% of our total population (excluding retired folk, the rich, students, etc), so yes, that's an absolute fact. Pisses me off also. But I figure that 2.5% is probably pretty normal. Surely every society has a few slackers.
 
imagep said:
Apparently that is about 2.5% of our total population (excluding retired folk, the rich, students, etc), so yes, that's an absolute fact. Pisses me off also. But I figure that 2.5% is probably pretty normal. Surely every society has a few slackers.
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You've mentioned that a couple of times here, and I find that low a figure suspect. Can you point to the post where this assertion is made, so that perhaps I can investigate a bit further for myself? Thanks in advance.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
A novel concept!

Have you given much thought on how the Congress could assist in such an endeavor?
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Meaningful job training, which is out there.
Any hour worked paid or unpaid (volunteer) elevates the benefits, rather than cutting them off = partial support if paid (I also believe that's in there too), just to too many aren't availing them of the opportunities that these programs represent to them. Too bad really.
 
eohrnberger said:
Meaningful job training, which is out there.
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Um, the issue is not worker supply, it is job supply.
Any hour worked paid or unpaid (volunteer) elevates the benefits, rather than cutting them off = partial support if paid (I also believe that's in there too), just to too many aren't availing them of the opportunities that these programs represent to them. Too bad really.
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I asked how Congress could assist the need (of creating meaningful work, ie J...O...B..S).
 
eohrnberger said:
Meaningful job training, which is out there.
Any hour worked paid or unpaid (volunteer) elevates the benefits, rather than cutting them off = partial support if paid (I also believe that's in there too), just to too many aren't availing them of the opportunities that these programs represent to them. Too bad really.
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Do they know they're available? If someone wanted to keep you in the dark about bettering yourself, would they be shouting this from the rooftops? Just askin... If they do know, and choose not to participate, then stop whining about how miserable and ill-treated you are! It could be your own fault! :argue:
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, the issue is not worker supply, it is job supply.
I asked how Congress could assist the need (of creating meaningful work, ie J...O...B..S).
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Congress can only create government jobs, which is growing the overhead.

The best that congress can do is remove the barriers to private sector growth which will lead to jobs, i.e. private sector demand for a larger workforce.
 
eohrnberger said:
Congress can only create government jobs, which is growing the overhead.
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Absolutely false.

The best that congress can do is remove the barriers to private sector growth which will lead to jobs, i.e. private sector demand for a larger workforce.
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Not only is this contradictory to your first part, it is a non-answer.
 
polgara said:
Do they know they're available? If someone wanted to keep you in the dark about bettering yourself, would they be shouting this from the rooftops? Just askin... If they do know, and choose not to participate, then stop whining about how miserable and ill-treated you are! It could be your own fault! :argue:
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They don't. However, they are very innovative and ingenious.

20131130_USP001_0.jpg

UNCLE SAM is being bilked, big-time. Losses from health-care scams alone are between $70 billion and $240 billion a year, reckons the FBI. An ever higher percentage of frauds (false claims for welfare payments, tax refunds and so on) are being perpetrated with stolen identities. Some 12.6m people—one every three seconds—fell victim to identity theft in the United States in 2012, according to Javelin Strategy and Research. The problem only grows as benefit programmes strive for efficiency and convenience, shifting applications online and making payments to prepaid debit cards, which can be bought in shops, require no bank account and allow money to be laundered quickly and easily. The self-proclaimed first lady of tax-refund fraud is Rashia Wilson (posing with the loot on her Facebook page, above) who, along with her eager associates, claimed bogus rebates of more than $11m.
. . . .
20131130_USP006_0.jpg

. . . .
20131130_USC858.png
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Stealing from the government: SIRF

Frankly, I have no money, time, or patience for this sort of abuse of public monies.

Some say that you'd spend more trying to prosecute it than you are losing through the fraud. Somehow, the principals of the matter are lost. That's really too bad when principals are so easily sacrificed.
 
CalGun said:
Its always amazing how one can says its "pocket change" when its over $60 billion and not their money. I guess you'd call that label progressives but I call them criminals stealing from those who work hard and are forced to pay taxes for those who don't bother.
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What on earth are you talking about? Through this entire discussion you have been about as clear as the Mississippi River. What is $60B? When did we start talking about any numbers. I am only discussing the composition of "Not in the Workforce"... there was never a discussion of dollars. Are you off on off student loans... do you really want to go there?

As to not paying taxes, I don't have a clue where you get that idea... probably operating from impression rather than facts. I, for one, have paid quite a lot in federal taxes.. like well over 7 figures a lot.... so, I have full proxy in discussion of how the government should spend it money....
 
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eohrnberger said:
It's still disconcerting that so many don't participate in the labor force.

To my mind, the human benefits from work, kinda like occupational therapy. Having so many sit about idle, not producing, not caring for themselves, expecting everyone else that produces to provide for them, is really corrosive to those people receiving in many ways. No, they need meaningful work, and help to find it for them, if needed.
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Did you see why people don't participate in the labor force? The 92 million is substantially comprised of the retired, the disabled, stay-at-home moms and students. Perhaps the solution starts with you: call your grandma up, tell her she is deadbeat and needs to get off her A.
 
And republicans cut the IRS budget so there is no one to audit returns.
 
upsideguy said:
Follow-up to previous post.... almost 90 million of "persons not in the workforce" can be explained as follows (not references, should you want to verify)

View attachment 67172487


The US is an aging population, with 10,000 per day (or 300,000 per month) turning 65. While the act of turning 65 does not mean you retire and leave the workforce, it is a leading indicator and support for why the "not in workforce" number will continue to climb. Its not a bad thing.

Baby Boomers Retire | Pew Research Center

Another significant item that helps facilitate people out of the workforce is the Affordable Care Act. People in the 55-65 age bracket had often stayed in their jobs or took on a job just to get health insurance. That is no longer necessary with the ACA.

And, again, entrepreneurs and many of the self employed are also off the employment grid. They are creating tomorrows jobs, which should also be considered a good thing.

So, don't fear the number.
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While it is true that around 93% of those not in the labor force don't want a job, your breakdown is off.
Looking at the NCES link, your 21 million is total enrollment in 2011. Looking at the BLS data for August 2014 (Table A-16) we see that there were 6.2 million full time college students under 25 years old. 2.8 million were in the labor force...so that's 3.4 million full time college students not in the labor force.
However..overall, there were 10.9 million students age 16 to 24 not in the labor force.
 
You called the money spent on EBT pocket change, got called out for being the far left zealot that would call $60b (EBT expense) pocket change.....so your only recourse is to act ignorant and blame the one who noted your true lean silliness. As to oh I paid 6 figures prove it. As far as I'm concerned your just another low life scum milking the system and refusing to contribute to society.


upsideguy said:
What on earth are you talking about? Through this entire discussion you have been about as clear as the Mississippi River. What is $60B? When did we start talking about any numbers. I am only discussing the composition of "Not in the Workforce"... there was never a discussion of dollars. Are you off on off student loans... do you really want to go there?

As to not paying taxes, I don't have a clue where you get that idea... probably operating from impression rather than facts. I, for one, have paid quite a lot in federal taxes.. like well over 7 figures a lot.... so, I have full proxy in discussion of how the government should spend it money....
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CalGun said:
You called the money spent on EBT pocket change, got called out for being the far left zealot that would call $60b (EBT expense) pocket change.....so your only recourse is to act ignorant and blame the one who noted your true lean silliness. As to oh I paid 6 figures prove it. As far as I'm concerned your just another low life scum milking the system and refusing to contribute to society.
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I think the problem with you citing $60B is many families of soldiers on active duty are on EBT - over $100 million in EBT spent in commissaries, so that's not close to all EBT benefits going to families of soldiers serving this country. Are they "criminals stealing from those who work hard and are forced to pay taxes for those who don't bother" or "low life scum milking the system?" Many other working families receive EBT benefits. Are they also low life scum because they're working a low wage job with crap benefits?
 
pinqy said:
You realize that a majority of those not in the labor force are retired, disabled, or full time students? And that's not even talking about the stay-home spouses.
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LOL !!

Sorry, I cant help but laugh at that bit of mitigation.

Record low labor participation rates with rising poverty is somehow no one's fault

Its because of " demographics "...
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

Sorry, I cant help but laugh at that bit of mitigation.
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Where's the mitigation? I'm stating plain facts.

Record low labor participation rates with rising poverty is somehow no one's fault
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Labor Force participation is at 62.8% The record low was 58.2% in December 1954. In fact....until 1978, the participation rate had never been as high as 62.8%

Its because of " demographics "...
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the participation rate has been dropping since 2000. Male participation rate has been dropping since 1948. So yes, it is demographics. All of it since the Recession? Of course not. But demographics play a huge role.

I'd love to see your contrary evidence.

Labor Force Participation Rate is series LNS11300000 accessed at BLS Series Report : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
 
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I'm guessing you find it easy to ignore there are low life scum sucking at the tit of your beloved government? Of course it is - that is what what makes you a screaming leftist hiding under "undisclosed."


JasperL said:
I think the problem with you citing $60B is many families of soldiers on active duty are on EBT - over $100 million in EBT spent in commissaries, so that's not close to all EBT benefits going to families of soldiers serving this country. Are they "criminals stealing from those who work hard and are forced to pay taxes for those who don't bother" or "low life scum milking the system?" Many other working families receive EBT benefits. Are they also low life scum because they're working a low wage job with crap benefits?
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CalGun said:
I'm guessing you find it easy to ignore there are low life scum sucking at the tit of your beloved government? Of course it is - that is what what makes you a screaming leftist hiding under "undisclosed."
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If being on the opposite side of you makes me a "screaming leftist" who doesn't judge millions of people I don't know as "low life scum sucking at the teat" then I'm OK with that. Some are, some aren't, like the families of active duty soldiers protecting your sorry rear end, and millions of others working low wage jobs and raising a family on near minimum wage.
 
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