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Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

Gringo allstar said:
We used to call this impersonating a female. Until he gets his wee wee loped off gets fake tits and takes hormones HE needs to be IDed for what he is.. A male.
I'm sure he would also want to shower with the girls after gym class also so I guess we should allow that to?? Because we sure don't want his feelings hurt or for him to be offended, screw how others feel about it? I'm sure he will sue Hooters in the future because he has every right to be a Hooters girl also.
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None of which has anything to do with what I said, but hey...don't let that keep you from ranting.

Personally, I prefer to let people run their own lives without the government telling them what to do but that's just me.
 
WCH said:
IMO he's hiding his true gender. Will it say 'male' on his ID?

If so he needs to present himself as a male for the picture. If he want's to be a woman, go through the change and go to court to get your name changed.

Again,I have no sympathy for weirdness.
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Maybe he wants to be a man that wears makeup. What is it to you?

If he wears makeup in an everyday capacity, his ID should reflect what he looks like on a regular basis. Otherwise it's a ****ty ID.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I was at the NC DMV once when they made a woman go into the bathroom and remove her make-up (which looked like it was put on by spray paint) and to remove her wig before they would take her picture. In that context, I don't see a problem with it. The state of SC said they did this for the same reason when I read about this a couple days ago. I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, and not jump to a conclusion that this is some right wing religious thing or some anti-LGBT thing... unless evidence, real evidence, comes to light saying otherwise. At first, when I read the beginning of the article I read, they made it sound like it was some anti-LGBT thing, but buried way down in the article was the law that required the DMV to do it, so I took a second look and came to the new conclusion this is being fussed about simply because it IS in the state of SC, a red state, not because of what they did for the reason they did it... the law, which to me, makes sense. When you go to the DMV, you're not going to Glamor Shots to get a portrait taken.
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I don't believe there is insidious intent on the part of the state, but I do think it is poorly thought out and self-defeating. If an ID is supposed to help identify a person, and said person routinely changes their appearance, then having a photo that doesn't show the person how they are most likely to look in their day-to-day life is virtually worthless.
 
WCH said:
IMO he's hiding his true gender. Will it say 'male' on his ID?

If so he needs to present himself as a male for the picture. If he want's to be a woman, go through the change and go to court to get your name changed.

Again,I have no sympathy for weirdness.
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Makeup is not an indicator of gender, either the presence or absence of.
 
Gringo allstar said:
We used to call this impersonating a female. Until he gets his wee wee loped off gets fake tits and takes hormones HE needs to be IDed for what he is.. A male.
I'm sure he would also want to shower with the girls after gym class also so I guess we should allow that to?? Because we sure don't want his feelings hurt or for him to be offended, screw how others feel about it? I'm sure he will sue Hooters in the future because he has every right to be a Hooters girl also.
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So then this means that you're trying to say that men/boys can't wear makeup. Can you please show me that law? In fact, I bet that he wouldn't even be turned away from airport security wearing what he had on, makeup and all to get his ID picture taken, which proves that he is not wearing any sort of disguise and this whole issue is nothing more than people who want to maintain archaic gender stereotypes.
 
Gringo allstar said:
So then I should be able to shower with women at the gym, or else it's gender discrimination? ?
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I've changed with men, so don't even try this on me.

He isn't asking to use either the women's restroom or locker room. He has never said he thinks of himself as a woman. He said that he should be allowed to wear makeup and women's clothing and hairstyles and act as feminine as he wants. Wearing makeup does not make a person a woman or female, nor does not wearing makeup make a person male or a man.
 
Gringo allstar said:
The reason there is no laws on the books for this it's because it wasn't need. People used to have common sense! But the education system as beat that out of them, so now we have nonsense such as this.
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There are no laws on the books because it is gender discrimination. It doesn't pass constitutional muster. Such laws would be struck down in a heartbeat, which is why this boy will most likely win his case in court.
 
WCH said:
He's already admitted to wanting to be female.
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Where? I haven't seen this. Every article I've seen on this he claims to be "gender nonconforming", not transgendered.
 
roguenuke said:
Where? I haven't seen this. Every article I've seen on this he claims to be "gender nonconforming", not transgendered.
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He's being represented by a New York group known as the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund.

WTH do think he's shooting for?
 
WCH said:
IMO he's hiding his true gender. Will it say 'male' on his ID?

If so he needs to present himself as a male for the picture. If he want's to be a woman, go through the change and go to court to get your name changed.

Again,I have no sympathy for weirdness.
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What a stupid statement. Do you also want to turn down girls from getting photo ID unless they are wearing girly clothes with makeup and their hair done?

The photo is for identification, and nothing he did would prevent it from being used as such. In fact if he dresses like that every day it would help with identification. It's not him hiding his gender, it's him looking the way he wants to look.

You have presented no rationalization for preventing him from appearing as he does normally for his photo ID. You're entire argument boils down to the childish notion that "well it says male, therefor he has to look the way I THINK a male should look". Your opinion on what a male is allowed to wear has no effect on what they are actually allowed to wear.
 
WCH said:
He's being represented by a New York group known as the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund.

WTH do think he's shooting for?
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Which supports him because of the mistakes you just made. He has consistently said that he is "gender nonconforming". This is not the same thing as someone who wants to eventually change their sex. In the future, this may change. But right now he and his mother use masculine pronouns, which is a good indicator that he plans on staying a "he", just one that wears stuff normally worn by a "she". Basically he is more feminine than most "hes" usually are.
 
roughdraft274 said:
What a stupid statement. Do you also want to turn down girls from getting photo ID unless they are wearing girly clothes with makeup and their hair done?

The photo is for identification, and nothing he did would prevent it from being used as such. In fact if he dresses like that every day it would help with identification. It's not him hiding his gender, it's him looking the way he wants to look.

You have presented no rationalization for preventing him from appearing as he does normally for his photo ID. You're entire argument boils down to the childish notion that "well it says male, therefor he has to look the way I THINK a male should look". Your opinion on what a male is allowed to wear has no effect on what they are actually allowed to wear.
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Terrorists dress up as women too.

Like I said security.
 
WCH said:
Terrorists dress up as women too.

Like I said security.
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I've heard toddlers babble better arguments than what you've just presented here.

He's wearing some makeup. That doesn't make him unidentifiable. And it doesn't make him a security threat.

Any more bull**** you want to throw and see if it sticks?
 
roguenuke said:
I've changed with men, so don't even try this on me.

He isn't asking to use either the women's restroom or locker room. He has never said he thinks of himself as a woman. He said that he should be allowed to wear makeup and women's clothing and hairstyles and act as feminine as he wants. Wearing makeup does not make a person a woman or female, nor does not wearing makeup make a person male or a man.
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Well, I'm excited. :mrgreen:
 
radcen said:
Well, I'm excited. :mrgreen:
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I was the only woman in the shop at Pearl Harbor and the shop had a changing area with lockers designed to hide but it was only a single little area. I got really tired of having to go down to the gym to change every morning into my coveralls, so eventually I asked my LPO and Chief if I could change with the guys. They said that it would be fine if no one else had an objection to it. Did it for about 6 months with no problems, changing in the mornings into coveralls and back into civies before leaving.
 
radcen said:
I don't believe there is insidious intent on the part of the state, but I do think it is poorly thought out and self-defeating. If an ID is supposed to help identify a person, and said person routinely changes their appearance, then having a photo that doesn't show the person how they are most likely to look in their day-to-day life is virtually worthless.
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Very true. If this kid usually dresses like a girl and wears make-up, then that would be what a cop would see when they asked him for his license. Might as well put that picture on the license.
 
WCH said:
He would and should be if they see his ID say MALE.
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No he shouldn't be because wearing makeup does not make him less male. Wearing women's clothing doesn't make him less male. It just makes him a man/male that is wearing clothing, accessories, makeup normally worn by women. Being abnormal should not cause a person to be scrutinized as a potential terrorist above others who are seen as "normal".
 
roughdraft274 said:
I've heard toddlers babble better arguments than what you've just presented here.

He's wearing some makeup. That doesn't make him unidentifiable. And it doesn't make him a security threat.

Any more bull**** you want to throw and see if it sticks?
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I don't know who pissed in your cornflakes but, I've had enough of your insults.
 
ernst barkmann said:
driver license ..privilege of government...it is not a right.
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Not being discriminated against by the government based on your sex/gender without the government showing that said discrimination is necessary to further an important government interest is a right.
 
roguenuke said:
Not being discriminated against by the government based on your sex/gender without the government showing that said discrimination is necessary to further an important government interest is a right.
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a person does not have a right to a license to drive.....he may have a privilege of government, by equality under the law.

however equality under does not guarantee a person such a privilege, if that person does not conform to certain regulation's for receiving the privilege..
 
roguenuke said:
No he shouldn't be because wearing makeup does not make him less male. Wearing women's clothing doesn't make him less male. It just makes him a man/male that is wearing clothing, accessories, makeup normally worn by women. Being abnormal should not cause a person to be scrutinized as a potential terrorist above others who are seen as "normal".
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My first Wife and I lived next door to 5 guys that wanted to be women and prostituted themselves in hopes of finding the sugar daddy who would make it so.

Don't tell me about abnormal.
 
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