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Thread: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

  1. #51
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    The teen is going to lose this one and he should lose it hard. The state has every right to dictate how and what procedures are required to be followed to get the privilege of driving.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The teen is going to lose this one and he should lose it hard. The state has every right to dictate how and what procedures are required to be followed to get the privilege of driving.
    No. It is highly likely that he won't lose since this is gender discrimination. He is not wearing anything that a girl/woman is not allowed to wear and the makeup alone does not reasonably change his appearance enough to reasonably consider it a "disguise".

    Driving is a privilege, but equal protection of the laws is a right.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. It is highly likely that he won't lose since this is gender discrimination. He is not wearing anything that a girl/woman is not allowed to wear and the makeup alone does not reasonably change his appearance enough to reasonably consider it a "disguise".

    Driving is a privilege, but equal protection of the laws is a right.
    And the right to drive is something as dictated by the state. It's the same reason why women can't wear burqas and Jewish men can't wear that head thing.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    And the right to drive is something as dictated by the state. It's the same reason why women can't wear burqas and Jewish men can't wear that head thing.
    The state still has to abide by equal protection laws and cannot discriminate.

    For instance, the state cannot require women to take more testing than they do men, that is gender discrimination. The DMV cannot require Asians to get a higher score on the driving test than those of other races/nationalities. The DMV cannot require white people to wear a suit and tie or dress for their photo and allow other races to wear whatever they wish. This is what makes it gender discrimination. They are allowing women to wear something that they aren't allowing men to wear, and they are not going to be able to show an important state interest is furthered by doing this.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because that clown is in a profession, not living as a clown, even if the clown is in that makeup a lot.

    Here's an easy way to determine if it should be alright or not, would he be allowed to get on a plane dressed as he is without getting further screening? The answer is almost certainly "yes", so then the DMV has no place to tell him he needed to remove his makeup. This is gender discrimination.
    It's not gender discrimination - that's nonsense. Was he told he can't get a license because he's male? female? - NO - he was told he can't get his license because his appearance was disguised by too much make-up, period.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's not gender discrimination - that's nonsense. Was he told he can't get a license because he's male? female? - NO - he was told he can't get his license because his appearance was disguised by too much make-up, period.
    It is gender discrimination. He was being treated differently because of his gender alone. That is gender discrimination.

    His appearance is not a disguise. That is why he is being treated differently in fact. It is only assumed his appearance is a disguise because of his gender. The same thing on a female would not have given that assumption. Can a DMV agent tell a white girl that she cannot wear cornrows in her hair because she is white? That she has to remove the cornrows because they are a "disguise" designed to make her look black? What if the girl has a deep tan or darker skin tone and the cornrows but the only thing the DMV agent can do something about is the hair? Should she be made to remove the cornrows while they are allowed for a black girl?
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is gender discrimination. He was being treated differently because of his gender alone. That is gender discrimination.

    His appearance is not a disguise. That is why he is being treated differently in fact. It is only assumed his appearance is a disguise because of his gender. The same thing on a female would not have given that assumption. Can a DMV agent tell a white girl that she cannot wear cornrows in her hair because she is white? That she has to remove the cornrows because they are a "disguise" designed to make her look black? What if the girl has a deep tan or darker skin tone and the cornrows but the only thing the DMV agent can do something about is the hair? Should she be made to remove the cornrows while they are allowed for a black girl?
    Firstly, it is a disguise - the whole purpose of makeup is to "make up" an appearance that is different from the one you were born with. It is a disguise, because the young man in this situation wants to appear to be a girl, which he is not. Calling this gender discrimination is nonsense because the DMV clerk didn't tell him he had to have a sex change in order to be eligible for a license - she told him he had to present himself in a more natural way as to not appear to be someone he is naturally not.

    Secondly, a white woman with cornrows would have not problem, unless the cornrows obstructed a clear view of her face at which point she'd be asked to position her hair to give a clear view - likewise, if a male or female has abnormally long bangs that obscure the face they would also be asked to position the hair so a clear view of their face is available.
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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Firstly, it is a disguise - the whole purpose of makeup is to "make up" an appearance that is different from the one you were born with. It is a disguise, because the young man in this situation wants to appear to be a girl, which he is not. Calling this gender discrimination is nonsense because the DMV clerk didn't tell him he had to have a sex change in order to be eligible for a license - she told him he had to present himself in a more natural way as to not appear to be someone he is naturally not.

    Secondly, a white woman with cornrows would have not problem, unless the cornrows obstructed a clear view of her face at which point she'd be asked to position her hair to give a clear view - likewise, if a male or female has abnormally long bangs that obscure the face they would also be asked to position the hair so a clear view of their face is available.
    Then all makeup, even that worn by women would be a disguise as well, and they would have to be made to remove makeup at the DMV also.

    There you go again. You are attributing the wearing of makeup to being a girl. That is the problem. While it may be the norm that women wear makeup and men don't, it is not a law for either. It is nothing but a social norm.

    This is gender discrimination. He is being made to do something based solely on his gender. If he was a she, he would not have had to remove his makeup.

    You are assuming that a white woman with cornrows would not have a problem. That is an assumption you are trying to use to change the scenario I am giving you. The entire point is that it was said that it wasn't discrimination because the DMV can make people do things to get their license so long as they are still allowed to get it when they do the request. That simply isn't true. It is still discrimination to ask someone who is of a certain race, religion, sex, whatever to do something that you would not ask someone of a different religion, race, sex, whatever to do. It might be justified discrimination, but that must be determined by what the purpose of the request is and whether it furthers an important or higher state interest in doing it. This doesn't.

    So long as they are asking everyone to do it, then it isn't discrimination. But in this case, with this boy, they do not ask girls/women to remove their makeup, so that is what makes it discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Wearing clothes that are normally worn by the other sex or wearing makeup when it is normally worn now by the other sex is not "a mental disorder", at all. No one is allowed to dress up like Spiderman. And this boy is not professing to be a girl. He is merely wearing attire that is normally worn by women. And yes, the DMV should have to acquiesce because there is no law that says men cannot wear makeup or women's clothing.

    Nope, sorry, he's a mental case, clear cut.


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    Re: Teen sues DMV after being told to remove makeup

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So long as they are asking everyone to do it, then it isn't discrimination. But in this case, with this boy, they do not ask girls/women to remove their makeup, so that is what makes it discrimination.
    This is going nowhere, so one last time and then I'm done.

    The DMV would ask a girl/woman to remove their makeup should that makeup be used to disguise who they naturally are. If a woman or man is listed as Caucasian/white on their data and they present wearing blackface makeup they will be asked to remove the makeup before their picture is taken no matter how much they may bitch and moan about walking around in blackface all day every day - it's that simple.

    DMV clerks aren't known for being the sharpest knives in the drawer so to expect them to intuitively know that in everyday life someone wears sufficient makeup to hide who they are is not going to happen - they simply look at a person as they present themselves and make a judgement. 999 times out of 1000 I'm betting they don't have an issue - one time, like this, they might. If 999 people out of 1000 can follow the common sense procedures and not be so self-obsessed and in need of unreasonable attention, that last person can do the same - or, they can take the bus.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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