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Thread: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The story is false.
    Is it? There's an update at the bottom of this story that seems to support that Bush did know that the different sects within Islam existed: “If the Iraqi regime wishes peace, it will cease persecution of its civilian population, including Shi’a, Sunnis, Kurds, Turkomans, and others, again as required by Security Council resolutions.” But is there any indication that prior to the invasion Bush knew of the importance of the Shi'a/Sunni schism?

    I would like to hear your side of the story, though.
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Is it? There's an update at the bottom of this story that seems to support that Bush did know that the different sects within Islam existed: “If the Iraqi regime wishes peace, it will cease persecution of its civilian population, including Shi’a, Sunnis, Kurds, Turkomans, and others, again as required by Security Council resolutions.” But is there any indication that prior to the invasion Bush knew of the importance of the Shi'a/Sunni schism?

    I would like to hear your side of the story, though.
    Ambassador Galbraith recounts the White house incident in his book.

    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Am...Bush_0804.html
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Is it? There's an update at the bottom of this story that seems to support that Bush did know that the different sects within Islam existed: “If the Iraqi regime wishes peace, it will cease persecution of its civilian population, including Shi’a, Sunnis, Kurds, Turkomans, and others, again as required by Security Council resolutions.” But is there any indication that prior to the invasion Bush knew of the importance of the Shi'a/Sunni schism?

    I would like to hear your side of the story, though.
    Galbraith is a Clintonista hack who, when he was Ambassador, was caught facilitating Iranian arms shipments into Bosnia. The quote doesn't show anything one way or the other. GWB was in fact quite knowledgeable.
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Galbraith is a Clintonista hack who, when he was Ambassador, was caught facilitating Iranian arms shipments into Bosnia. The quote doesn't show anything one way or the other. GWB was in fact quite knowledgeable.
    1. Why was he facilitating those arms shipments - was it under his direction, or did someone tell him to make that happen? And this takes away from his credibility how? I ask because I hold a very high opinion of Bush 41, and he was - had to be - involved hip-deep in Iran-Contra.

    2. It seems that you're referring to the quote I posted in my comment, but not the pertinent quote concerning GWB's ignorance from the same reference:

    During their conversation with the President, Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites. Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam–to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”

    3. Please show me on what you base your contention that GWB was "in fact quite knowledgeable", especially given that (1) this is concerning nations that are far away and (at the time) peoples of whom we knew little, and (2) GWB, even as incredibly wealthy as he was, traveled very little outside America's borders until after he started running for president (and certainly never traveled anywhere close to the Middle East). You know better than I do how the less people travel the world, the more ignorant they tend to be of the world...and this would be even more true of those who can afford to travel the world so easily. Bush was ignorant of the world because he saw no reason why he should be curious about the world.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    1. Why was he facilitating those arms shipments - was it under his direction, or did someone tell him to make that happen? And this takes away from his credibility how? I ask because I hold a very high opinion of Bush 41, and he was - had to be - involved hip-deep in Iran-Contra.

    2. It seems that you're referring to the quote I posted in my comment, but not the pertinent quote concerning GWB's ignorance from the same reference:

    During their conversation with the President, Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites. Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islamto which the President allegedly responded, I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!

    3. Please show me on what you base your contention that GWB was "in fact quite knowledgeable", especially given that (1) this is concerning nations that are far away and (at the time) peoples of whom we knew little, and (2) GWB, even as incredibly wealthy as he was, traveled very little outside America's borders until after he started running for president (and certainly never traveled anywhere close to the Middle East). You know better than I do how the less people travel the world, the more ignorant they tend to be of the world...and this would be even more true of those who can afford to travel the world so easily. Bush was ignorant of the world because he saw no reason why he should be curious about the world.
    1. Galbraith is, quite simply, a liar.
    2. Analysts who briefed GWB were routinely impressed by his interest in subjects covered and his enthusiasm to understand more. It was, in fact, GWB himself who requested the lengthy in-depth briefings that came to be known as "deep dives."
    Permitting Iran to Arm Bosnia Was Vital, U.S. Envoys Testify ...

    www.nytimes.com/.../permitting-iran-to-arm-bosni...The New York Times


    May 31, 1996 - Peter W. Galbraith, the United States Ambassador to Croatia, and ... that the Iranian arms, shipped through Croatia to the Bosnian Muslims, ...


    INVESTIGATION INTO IRANIAN ARMS SHIPMENTS TO ...

    www.gpo.gov/.../CRPT-105hrp...United States Government Printing Office


    INVESTIGATION INTO IRANIAN ARMS SHIPMENTS TO BOSNIA ______ October 9, ..... Ambassador Galbraith, according to his own testimony, informed the .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    1. Galbraith is, quite simply, a liar.
    2. Analysts who briefed GWB were routinely impressed by his interest in subjects covered and his enthusiasm to understand more. It was, in fact, GWB himself who requested the lengthy in-depth briefings that came to be known as "deep dives."
    Permitting Iran to Arm Bosnia Was Vital, U.S. Envoys Testify ...

    www.nytimes.com/.../permitting-iran-to-arm-bosni...The New York Times


    May 31, 1996 - Peter W. Galbraith, the United States Ambassador to Croatia, and ... that the Iranian arms, shipped through Croatia to the Bosnian Muslims, ...


    INVESTIGATION INTO IRANIAN ARMS SHIPMENTS TO ...

    www.gpo.gov/.../CRPT-105hrp...United States Government Printing Office


    INVESTIGATION INTO IRANIAN ARMS SHIPMENTS TO BOSNIA ______ October 9, ..... Ambassador Galbraith, according to his own testimony, informed the .
    If a man lies about one thing, he's automatically a liar about other things? If that's the case, we'd be very hard put to find anyone - inside or outside of politics - who can be trusted. Again, how many on the Right lied about Iran-Contra - does that mean that they're automatically liars about anything else they say?

    And I have no problem with GWB being referred to as a highly intelligent man - he certainly was. No argument there. But a person can be highly intelligent and simultaneously highly incurious about the world around him...and it sure seems that Bush was indeed incurious about the world around him.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If a man lies about one thing, he's automatically a liar about other things? If that's the case, we'd be very hard put to find anyone - inside or outside of politics - who can be trusted. Again, how many on the Right lied about Iran-Contra - does that mean that they're automatically liars about anything else they say?

    And I have no problem with GWB being referred to as a highly intelligent man - he certainly was. No argument there. But a person can be highly intelligent and simultaneously highly incurious about the world around him...and it sure seems that Bush was indeed incurious about the world around him.
    In my experience liars lie. Your conclusion that GWB was "incurious" is purely the product of false propaganda. In office he was intensely curious.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    In my experience liars lie. Your conclusion that GWB was "incurious" is purely the product of false propaganda. In office he was intensely curious.
    Really? In my experience, if someone is really, truly curious about other nations, if he has the time and the money to do so, he goes to those other nations. And if he's not curious, if he just likes staying home, he does so. GWB spent over a quarter of his presidency at his ranch in Texas.

    I've known many a very intelligent man who could care less about traveling overseas...and you know better than I that what one reads or sees on the screen is a poor substitute indeed for actually having been there.

    And when it comes to "liars lie", yes, some lie more than most...but have you never told a lie? Of course you have, esp. considering your career - it was a matter of life or death. What's more, people are sometimes put into a position where they're essentially forced to lie. Take Clinton, for instance: if you're standing in front of Congress with all the TV cameras of all the major networks focused on your face, are you going to admit you got a blowjob from a woman not your wife? Maybe you would...but the vast majority of husbands (including myself) would lie through their teeth and say, "Hell, no!"

    Again, just because someone who has lied about something says something else you don't like doesn't mean that it's automatically a lie...and GWB's apparent lack of curiousity about other nations and other cultures seems to back up what Galbraith said.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? In my experience, if someone is really, truly curious about other nations, if he has the time and the money to do so, he goes to those other nations. And if he's not curious, if he just likes staying home, he does so. GWB spent over a quarter of his presidency at his ranch in Texas.

    I've known many a very intelligent man who could care less about traveling overseas...and you know better than I that what one reads or sees on the screen is a poor substitute indeed for actually having been there.

    And when it comes to "liars lie", yes, some lie more than most...but have you never told a lie? Of course you have, esp. considering your career - it was a matter of life or death. What's more, people are sometimes put into a position where they're essentially forced to lie. Take Clinton, for instance: if you're standing in front of Congress with all the TV cameras of all the major networks focused on your face, are you going to admit you got a blowjob from a woman not your wife? Maybe you would...but the vast majority of husbands (including myself) would lie through their teeth and say, "Hell, no!"

    Again, just because someone who has lied about something says something else you don't like doesn't mean that it's automatically a lie...and GWB's apparent lack of curiousity about other nations and other cultures seems to back up what Galbraith said.
    I do not consider disguising the truth in the service of my country to have been lying. Otherwise, considering my career, I had no more precious professional asset than my reputation for direct candor and honesty. Clinton admittedly faced an extraordinary situation, but it was a situation created by his own previous dishonesty.

    I'll not debate what are the outward signs of a curious mind; I don't think there are any. I can only repeat the direct personal experience of people I trust: GWB was intensely curious and an avid student.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I do not consider disguising the truth in the service of my country to have been lying. Otherwise, considering my career, I had no more precious professional asset than my reputation for direct candor and honesty. Clinton admittedly faced an extraordinary situation, but it was a situation created by his own previous dishonesty.

    I'll not debate what are the outward signs of a curious mind; I don't think there are any. I can only repeat the direct personal experience of people I trust: GWB was intensely curious and an avid student.
    Avid student, sure - and very intelligent, too. Intensely curious - maybe, but not about other nations or cultures. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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