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Thread: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

  1. #31
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
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    Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Great interview, with a man that knows a lot about the region. He states that the US does have some responsibility in the creation of ISIS. It also states that Turkey and the US at some point (if not have already) are going to have to accept that Assad is going to stay in power. It also goes over how the Kurds will win some cultural, social, and political autonomy if not full autonomy in the region.
    It's not like he hasn't got it all wrong before.

    Graham E. Fuller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_E._FullerWikipedia

    n 1987, Fuller was identified as the author of a 1985 study that according to the New York Times was "instrumental" in the decision of the Reagan Administration to secretly contact leaders in Iran and "eventually led to the covert sale of United States weapons to Tehran in what became the Iran–Contra affair."[3][4] The document suggested that the Soviet Union was in position to influence Iran and that the United States might gain influence by selling arms to the country.[14] According to Fuller, he had revised his opinion as the situation developed, but though he had told Government officials, a written report on the change was not circulated.[14] Fuller denied that the original "think piece" he had prepared with Howard Teicher was "tailored ... to support Administration policy."[14]
    Graham E. Fuller is an American author and political analyst, specializing in Islamic extremism. Formerly vice-chair of the National Intelligence Council, he also ...‎Career - ‎Works - ‎References - ‎External links
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #32
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :roll Dude. Not Two Weeks Ago you were claiming that:



    and now you are hopping on a narrative that:



    You have zero consistency whatsoever except this: whatever allows you to blame the United States, you will leap on. Typical.
    There is no inconsistency in my position that IS advancements in the Middle East have been enabled and facilitated by US policy there. As to Paul, he's the one in the unfortunate predicament of having pointed out that US policies in Syria have left IS a beneficiary, while now advocating a military campaign to destroy them. And the other statement you quoted, was in parenthesise for a reason. They weren't my words, but a quote. So CP, to recap, I continue to hold the US responsible for facilitating a group we now will apparently have to fight. Controlling groups does not equate to creating groups. Nice try, again.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #33
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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There is no inconsistency in my position that IS advancements in the Middle East have been enabled and facilitated by US policy there.
    You initially argued in favor of "active enablement", only to instead later pick up on an argument that rejected acted enablement in favor of "served as a precondition of". You cannot argue both For and Against X and remain consistent.

    As to Paul, he's the one in the unfortunate predicament of having pointed out that US policies in Syria have left IS a beneficiary, while now advocating a military campaign to destroy them.
    well he's late to the party, but on those counts as you describe he is correct. US refusal to

    And the other statement you quoted, was in parenthesise for a reason. They weren't my words, but a quote.
    A quote which you then stated was:

    Quote Originally Posted by montecresto
    His observation is precisely what we've witnessed
    So... which is it, monty? You agree, or disagree?

    So CP, to recap, I continue to hold the US responsible for facilitating a group we now will apparently have to fight.
    Facilitating? No - that is a term that involves active enablement. We failed to stop them when it would have been easier to do so. So we allowed a problem to fester because we weren't willing to take action, and now we will have to take greater action. Passive enablement, perhaps you could argue for. But that is not facilitation.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Dude. You claimed we installed the Shah. We did no such thing. We enabled an already installed Shah in dismissing one of his Prime Ministers. The Sources YOU Cited Confirmed This.

    You initially claimed:



    A claim which was and remains ridiculous. Not only do our problems predate the event you are attempting to reference, but many of them (including the one under discussion) do not flow draw significant history from it.
    oh please; you were wrong.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Actually, president Assad was a stabilising force in Syria. And prior to Qatar, Saudi and US support for the terrorist groups at work to destroy him, there wasn't any of this.
    Assad was, you are right. His problem came when an uprising began and then he gassed some people. Private Saudi citizens have been funneling great deals of money into teh sectarians and now of corse we have ISIS.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    oh please; you were wrong.
    If you are going to have to retreat to a series of "uh-uh!!!"s, then it's pointless to continue with you. I laid out multiple reasons for why your original argument was fail, you attempted to ignore all of them but one, and then the sources you cited disagreed with your original claim. Let me know if you ever manage to master that 1920<1953, or that Sunni =/= Shia.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It's not like he hasn't got it all wrong before.

    Graham E. Fuller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_E._FullerWikipedia

    n 1987, Fuller was identified as the author of a 1985 study that according to the New York Times was "instrumental" in the decision of the Reagan Administration to secretly contact leaders in Iran and "eventually led to the covert sale of United States weapons to Tehran in what became the Iran–Contra affair."[3][4] The document suggested that the Soviet Union was in position to influence Iran and that the United States might gain influence by selling arms to the country.[14] According to Fuller, he had revised his opinion as the situation developed, but though he had told Government officials, a written report on the change was not circulated.[14] Fuller denied that the original "think piece" he had prepared with Howard Teicher was "tailored ... to support Administration policy."[14]
    Graham E. Fuller is an American author and political analyst, specializing in Islamic extremism. Formerly vice-chair of the National Intelligence Council, he also ...‎Career - ‎Works - ‎References - ‎External links
    BwaAAH-hahahaha!

    Now THAT'S funny, right there.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If you are going to have to retreat to a series of "uh-uh!!!"s, then it's pointless to continue with you. I laid out multiple reasons for why your original argument was fail, you attempted to ignore all of them but one, and then the sources you cited disagreed with your original claim. Let me know if you ever manage to master that 1920<1953, or that Sunni =/= Shia.
    Look dude: my original argument was quite correct and then I proved it.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You initially argued in favor of "active enablement", only to instead later pick up on an argument that rejected acted enablement in favor of "served as a precondition of". You cannot argue both For and Against X and remain consistent.



    well he's late to the party, but on those counts as you describe he is correct. US refusal to



    A quote which you then stated was:



    So... which is it, monty? You agree, or disagree?



    Facilitating? No - that is a term that involves active enablement. We failed to stop them when it would have been easier to do so. So we allowed a problem to fester because we weren't willing to take action, and now we will have to take greater action. Passive enablement, perhaps you could argue for. But that is not facilitation.
    The gentlemen qualified his statement by pointing out that the US didn't create ISIS, but that our actions in the region have been beneficial to them. And indeed they have. So I do argue facilitation. And not just on the Syrian front. The removal of Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and perhaps Assad has given room, and not only for ISIS, but other militant Islamist to flourish. Have you noticed what a fine mess Libya is in?

    And I don't consider Paul late to the party. Considering that he would have preferred that the US wasn't advancing policies that end up being beneficial, even supportive to them in the first place. When the aforementioned individuals were in power, these militant Islamists raising hell in Iraq, Syria and Libya, were nowhere around, or very incognito. They certainly weren't enjoying the freedom to bloom that were now seeing.

    But none of that matters, as with most, but not all, you will continue to support the policies that the analyst in the op finds destructive. Which is why I suppose you're here criticising him.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 09-04-14 at 10:24 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Assad was, you are right. His problem came when an uprising began and then he gassed some people. Private Saudi citizens have been funneling great deals of money into teh sectarians and now of corse we have ISIS.
    Yes well, it was never proven that he was responsible for the gas. And it makes no sense that he would. For one thing, at the time he enjoyed 70% support from Syrian's. Gassing them would not advance his purpose. Gassing his own people would make Putins support more difficult, and gassing his people would be handing the US a green light for military action, that he most certainly didn't want. The UK ended up pulling there support. Hillary Clinton failed in all three of her attempts to secure a resolution for the use of force in Syria, Obama could not get authorisation from congress, and, 70% of Americans were against it.

    You're right that Saudis and Qatar too, are supporting the terrorists working to overthrow president Assad. And then IS as pointed out by the CIA official in the op, has been emboldened by our policies there. So why anyone would want to see more US policy in the region is a mystery.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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