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Thread: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. I wonder if any of her supporters at least now have the decency to be embarrassed about all that.
    I think the next time she opens her mouth about Syria.....people should break this out in front of her face and around her Offices. Even have the MSM bring up what she said live.

    So all can see just how she never was Right.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I think the next time she opens her mouth about Syria.....people should break this out in front of her face and around her Offices. Even have the MSM bring up what she said live.
    Sure. Likelihood of that happening?

    I mean, that would force them to accept in public that reflexively opposing whatever George Bush said or did wasn't actually a sound basis for foreign policy.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I like how I listed 4 major problems, and you can only respond to one.

    That being the case, the CIA and the Brits did indeed have a role in the events of 1953 - we came in at the behest of the Brits. I like how you cite All the Shah's Men - I spent a couple of months of my life, at one point, going through that tome and comparing it to other sources. Kinzer was a reliable transmitter of what his Iranian sources (who were themselves reliable transmitters of their media) told him. Certainly it is what the average Iranian believes today.

    However, the Shah had the power under the Constitution of Iran to dismiss the Prime Minister from his post, and did so. He feared that Mossadegh would instead attempt to raise a series of street mobs against him, which he might have, and the US played a small role in linking him to loyal members of his military, who pledged to back him. Mossadegh was given multiple off-ramp options that involved not wrecking the Iranian economy, and chose to refuse them all. Kirbys' role was, well, let us be kind to the man and say that he very much wanted to live up to the standards of his family name, and may have stretched his importance a bit hoping to do so.

    However, the thinness of your analysis breaks down on a few key points - This is Iran. Not Saudi Arabia. Not Egypt. Iran. Saudi's could not care less (except perhaps for the very small Shia minority) whether or not we interfered in Iranian politics, and to the extent that we enabled the Shah, they probably preferred it. The Sunni are not pissed off at us because of the 1953 counter-coup; Sunni Islamist extremism predates that event. Additionally, the straight line from 1953 to 1979 is a false one that ignores far larger drivers of that revolution. I would highly encourage you (or anyone, actually, who is interested in this topic) to read "The Unthinkable Revolution" by Charles Kurzman.



    okay.
    (chuckle)

    Here's what you said:
    . Modern Sunni Islamism dates from the establishment of the Muslim Brotherhood, and was first best expressed in the writings of Sayyid Qutb, circa 1920s.
    2. The US did not install the Shah. The Pahlavi dynasty took over Iran in 1925.
    3. Shia extremism did not start in Iran as a result of the defeat of the 1953 coup by Mossadegh, but rather later took advantage of it.
    4. ISIS as an organization owes precisely.... nothing in its founding to the Islamic Republic of Iran, or the preceding monarchy.



    So... your post is wrong on multiple levels.
    What I said was: we'll start with this level, and then I proceeded to blow your your entire argument out of the water and I used the CIA's own records; on their own site to do it.

    Sorry dude, you need to read up. Get something better going and then we can talk.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    April 4th 2007.....oh and to top it off. She wore a very short skirt, in her one on one with Assad.






    Gee; is that like when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussein and then Reagan gave arms to him to defeat the Iranians?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Gee; is that like when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussein and then Reagan gave arms to him to defeat the Iranians?
    No not at all, Rumsfeld was SOD and expected to travel outside the country and meet with Foreign Leaders. Did you want to say that was the Speaker of the House's Job?

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    "I think the United States is one of the key creators of this organization. The United States did not plan the formation of ISIS, but its destructive interventions in the Middle East and the war in Iraq were the basic causes of the birth of ISIS.” Ok, why would this be agenda driven. His observation is precisely what we've witnessed, and, what China and Russia both warned would be the result of US intervention/interference in the region, and particularly in Syria.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Gee; is that like when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussein and then Reagan gave arms to him to defeat the Iranians?
    Actually, president Assad was a stabilising force in Syria. And prior to Qatar, Saudi and US support for the terrorist groups at work to destroy him, there wasn't any of this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    (chuckle)

    Here's what you said:

    What I said was: we'll start with this level, and then I proceeded to blow your your entire argument out of the water and I used the CIA's own records; on their own site to do it.

    Sorry dude, you need to read up. Get something better going and then we can talk.


    Dude. You claimed we installed the Shah. We did no such thing. We enabled an already installed Shah in dismissing one of his Prime Ministers. The Sources YOU Cited Confirmed This.

    You initially claimed:

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57
    pur problems started over there in 1953 when the CIA installed the Shah.
    A claim which was and remains ridiculous. Not only do our problems predate the event you are attempting to reference, but many of them (including the one under discussion) do not flow draw significant history from it.

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    No; pur problems started over there in 1953 when the CIA installed the Shah. The invasion of Iraq was a waste of time, money and lives and created a boiler plate for jihadists and of course ISIS has a huge presence there now. GW Bush really blew for it for us.
    By 2008 victory had been achieved in Iraq. BHO threw that away. In addition, he missed the window for effective action in Syria (early 2012) and erased his own Red Line. Iraq abdication and Syria hesitation ran together to form ISIS.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    "I think the United States is one of the key creators of this organization. The United States did not plan the formation of ISIS, but its destructive interventions in the Middle East and the war in Iraq were the basic causes of the birth of ISIS.” Ok, why would this be agenda driven. His observation is precisely what we've witnessed, and, what China and Russia both warned would be the result of US intervention/interference in the region, and particularly in Syria.
    :roll Dude. Not Two Weeks Ago you were claiming that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto
    More evidence has been entered into the files of public record that terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda, ISIS, and the al-Nusra Front are completely controlled by the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies....
    and now you are hopping on a narrative that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto
    The United States did not plan the formation of ISIS, but its destructive interventions in the Middle East and the war in Iraq were the basic causes of the birth of ISIS...
    You have zero consistency whatsoever except this: whatever allows you to blame the United States, you will leap on. Typical.

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