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Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

Karl said:
No he didn't. Try to post in at least some semblance of reality
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Why are Arabs disinclined to representation and human rights? How does evolution help them become "ready for it"?

Do you agree with Jackie Chan about Chinese people too?

What other race is not fit for self rule?
 
Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily

American said:
Fmr. CIA operative: ISIS cells are here in the U.S., and they
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Read, and you'll see that policies including, (but pre-dating as well) the Obama administration have been beneficial to ISIS. And! The borders have been open for a very, VERY long time.

Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

Read more: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
 
Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily

Montecresto said:
Read, and you'll see that policies including, (but pre-dating as well) the Obama administration have been beneficial to ISIS. And! The borders have been open for a very, VERY long time.

Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS

Read more: Former CIA officer says US policies helped create IS - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
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Bush was criticized throughout his presidency by the Right for not enforcing the border.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Small operations don't "militarily destroy" terrorist groups either. In fact, the military is not an appropriate means to combat terrorist groups.

Either the senator doesn't know this, which makes him unfit to serve, or he is using IS as an excuse to drum up more wasteful defense spending.
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Obama just said he wants to "dismantle" ISIS. Do you think we should be expecting an invasion?
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Small operations don't "militarily destroy" terrorist groups either.
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You're right here, they don't. At least, not on their own. It is important the remove the factors that enable these groups to prosper, but also work with the ME countries to remove the groups that do exist. That does mean some military action.


In fact, the military is not an appropriate means to combat terrorist groups.
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So we should not have responded militarily to 9/11?
 
Geoist said:
You're right here, they don't. At least, not on their own. It is important the remove the factors that enable these groups to prosper, but also work with the ME countries to remove the groups that do exist. That does mean some military action.




So we should not have responded militarily to 9/11?
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I heartily agree with your first point. To the second, no. And a very large majority of Americans now view the A-Stan war as a mistake, and at least a simple majority view the Iraq war similarly.
 
Montecresto said:
I heartily agree with your first point. To the second, no. And a very large majority of Americans now view the A-Stan war as a mistake, and at least a simple majority view the Iraq war similarly.
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Actually, I think its a large majority of Americans agree we should be out of Afghanistan now, but that isn't the same as saying we shouldn't have gone in the first place.

Personally, I do think a full-scale war was a mistake for Afghanistan and definitely Iraq. But I think organizing a task force mission to capture/kill Bin Ladin was necessary.
 
Geoist said:
You're right here, they don't. At least, not on their own. It is important the remove the factors that enable these groups to prosper, but also work with the ME countries to remove the groups that do exist. That does mean some military action.
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Not necessarily. Sharing intelligence and strategic planning could accomplish the same goal.

So we should not have responded militarily to 9/11?
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The 12/11 military action was a direct result of the Taliban's refusal to hand over bin Laden. They could just as easily have said, "Come over here and take him; just don't shoot us on the way in."
 
Geoist said:
Actually, I think its a large majority of Americans agree we should be out of Afghanistan now, but that isn't the same as saying we shouldn't have gone in the first place.

Personally, I do think a full-scale war was a mistake for Afghanistan and definitely Iraq. But I think organizing a task force mission to capture/kill Bin Ladin was necessary.
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No really, a majority think that military action in A-Stan was a mistake!

PRINCETON, NJ -- For the first time since the U.S. initially became involved in Afghanistan in 2001, Americans are as likely to say U.S. military involvement there was a mistake as to say it was not.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/167471/americans-view-afghanistan-war-mistake.aspx
 
Just what we need, another stupid war. The fallout of which will set the stage for the next stupid war.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Not necessarily. Sharing intelligence and strategic planning could accomplish the same goal.
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There is no point in sharing that intel and planning if there is no military action taken.


The 12/11 military action was a direct result of the Taliban's refusal to hand over bin Laden. They could just as easily have said, "Come over here and take him; just don't shoot us on the way in."
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I know what it was the result of. And yes, they refused to hand over Bin Ladin, yet you think our military should have done nothing about Bin Ladin.
 
Paschendale said:
Just what we need, another stupid war. The fallout of which will set the stage for the next stupid war.
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From what I read, Rand Paul said nothing about going into another war.
 
Montecresto said:
No really, a majority think that military action in A-Stan was a mistake!

PRINCETON, NJ -- For the first time since the U.S. initially became involved in Afghanistan in 2001, Americans are as likely to say U.S. military involvement there was a mistake as to say it was not.

More Americans Now View Afghanistan War as a Mistake
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I stand corrected.

This point is interesting, though: Afghanistan has become America's longest war, stretching over 12 years since U.S. military forces were first sent in 2001, with well over 35,000 troops still there. Americans were initially more supportive of involvement in Afghanistan than they were for any recent major military intervention. They also maintained a generally supportive posture toward U.S. involvement in Afghanistan for a longer period of time than was the case for other wars. But Americans' waning patience with the conflict has finally reached the point at which Americans are as likely to say the war was a mistake as to say it was not.


In other words, the poll is more an indication of American frustration with the longevity of the war more than anything. How many would have said in 2014 they supported the war if we actually pulled the troops out 5 years ago? I would bet good money it would be more than 50%.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
If that plan is real, I'm skeptical of it.
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I'm skeptical of just about any military plan government draws up. Hell, as an anarchist I want to see the eventual dissolution of our centralized military system altogether. But our current geo-political reality makes it next to impossible not to involve military when it comes to handling terrorist organizations. If Paul is indeed supporting invasions on the level of Afghanistan and Iraq then I vehemently oppose his position. I just haven't seen any specifics to draw conclusions.
 
99percenter said:
"If I were president, I would call a joint session of Congress. I would lay out the reasoning of why ISIS is a threat to our national security and seek congressional authorization to destroy ISIS militarily. [AP]"

Rand paul the Neocon. That didn't take long. Well at least he didn't give a bribe like his dad.

Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily' - The Week
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While Elephants and Donkeys may be symbols of political parties, its the chameleon that universal symbol of the politician...

Chameleon-05.jpg
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Wait, what? How did we manage to remove Assad? He's still - nominally - in power.

So we need to let them have whatever government they're willing to put together and put up with. It's none of America's business, nor should it be.

The rabbit hole has been there ever since the discovery of oil, my friend. Both Bush administrations just dug it deeper.

And the rabbit hole won't close up until after the oil is gone.

They don't have enough people or enough money. Besides, they're fighting one another at least half the time.

Complete and utter bull****. He'd been out of office for 9 months by then, which was more than enough time for the government to get its act together - if it hadn't become so corrupt.

All the more reason not to waste time and lives in some disenfranchised sand pit on the other side of the planet.
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It seems to me you have chosen to agree with me on this topic and yet you frame it as a rebuttal. I don't quite understand that but to each his own. The only topic I see worth addressing in your post is the Clinton portion. You do know that not everything a President does manifests itself during their tenure correct? It takes terrorists time to plan, gather resources, etc before attacking. It's not something they just get up in the morning and decide to do.
 
MarineTpartier said:
It seems to me you have chosen to agree with me on this topic and yet you frame it as a rebuttal. I don't quite understand that but to each his own. The only topic I see worth addressing in your post is the Clinton portion. You do know that not everything a President does manifests itself during their tenure correct? It takes terrorists time to plan, gather resources, etc before attacking. It's not something they just get up in the morning and decide to do.
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On some issues I agree, and on others I disagree. Never have I come across anyone who's an exact duplicate or opposite. Such is the complex nature of life.

As for Clinton, he can be blamed for many things, but the myth that 9/11 was his fault has been thoroughly debunked, over and over.
 
Geoist said:
I stand corrected.

This point is interesting, though: Afghanistan has become America's longest war, stretching over 12 years since U.S. military forces were first sent in 2001, with well over 35,000 troops still there. Americans were initially more supportive of involvement in Afghanistan than they were for any recent major military intervention. They also maintained a generally supportive posture toward U.S. involvement in Afghanistan for a longer period of time than was the case for other wars. But Americans' waning patience with the conflict has finally reached the point at which Americans are as likely to say the war was a mistake as to say it was not.


In other words, the poll is more an indication of American frustration with the longevity of the war more than anything. How many would have said in 2014 they supported the war if we actually pulled the troops out 5 years ago? I would bet good money it would be more than 50%.
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Except, the poll didn't ask whether we had been there too long, it asked whether or not our military operation was a mistake to begin with. And watch Geoist, I'll predict right now, Americans will be hugely in favor of a military operation against ISIS, now. Because most people pay far too little attention. It won't be until AFTER it has become painfully obvious that it too is a mistake that the mob will begin complaining it was a mistake. Governments know they can get away with it. It doesn't matter that BushCo knew they were lying about Iraq, they also knew that by the time the public figured it out, it would be long after "mission accomplished" which had nothing to do with defeating terrorism!
 
DifferentDrummr said:
On some issues I agree, and on others I disagree. Never have I come across anyone who's an exact duplicate or opposite. Such is the complex nature of life.

As for Clinton, he can be blamed for many things, but the myth that 9/11 was his fault has been thoroughly debunked, over and over.
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The fact that he did/would not give the command to kill OBL when he had the chance alone makes him partially responsible does it not? IMO it does. Not to mention the myriad other reasons he can be held responsible. One thing I think you're missing in my statements about Clinton are that the problem with the ME was there before him ie he was dealing with a mess he didn't make. I am simply criticizing how hands off he was. Should he have been an interventionist? No. Should he have been a lot more involved with the ME? Definitely yes. There is a fine line to walk between too much/little involvement in the ME. That's why the POTUS gets paid the big bucks though. It's definitely not easy and Im not trying to portray that I think it is.
 
Montecresto said:
Except, the poll didn't ask whether we had been there too long, it asked whether or not our military operation was a mistake to begin with.
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And I'm simply saying the length of the war is probably a huge factor in people saying this.

And watch Geoist, I'll predict right now, Americans will be hugely in favor of a military operation against ISIS, now.
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Yes, I think there are polls at this time showing support for military operations. I bet, though, support for an invasion such as with Afghanistan and Iraq is much much smaller.

Because most people pay far too little attention. It won't be until AFTER it has become painfully obvious that it too is a mistake that the mob will begin complaining it was a mistake.
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Agreed.

Governments know they can get away with it. It doesn't matter that BushCo knew they were lying about Iraq, they also knew that by the time the public figured it out, it would be long after "mission accomplished" which had nothing to do with defeating terrorism!
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Agreed. The sheeple are easily (mis)led.

Do you think there is any role for the military in the ME? Or do you think it should be completely hands-off?
 
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