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Thread: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Wait, what? How did we manage to remove Assad? He's still - nominally - in power.

    So we need to let them have whatever government they're willing to put together and put up with. It's none of America's business, nor should it be.

    The rabbit hole has been there ever since the discovery of oil, my friend. Both Bush administrations just dug it deeper.

    And the rabbit hole won't close up until after the oil is gone.

    They don't have enough people or enough money. Besides, they're fighting one another at least half the time.

    Complete and utter bull****. He'd been out of office for 9 months by then, which was more than enough time for the government to get its act together - if it hadn't become so corrupt.

    All the more reason not to waste time and lives in some disenfranchised sand pit on the other side of the planet.
    It seems to me you have chosen to agree with me on this topic and yet you frame it as a rebuttal. I don't quite understand that but to each his own. The only topic I see worth addressing in your post is the Clinton portion. You do know that not everything a President does manifests itself during their tenure correct? It takes terrorists time to plan, gather resources, etc before attacking. It's not something they just get up in the morning and decide to do.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  2. #222
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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    It seems to me you have chosen to agree with me on this topic and yet you frame it as a rebuttal. I don't quite understand that but to each his own. The only topic I see worth addressing in your post is the Clinton portion. You do know that not everything a President does manifests itself during their tenure correct? It takes terrorists time to plan, gather resources, etc before attacking. It's not something they just get up in the morning and decide to do.
    On some issues I agree, and on others I disagree. Never have I come across anyone who's an exact duplicate or opposite. Such is the complex nature of life.

    As for Clinton, he can be blamed for many things, but the myth that 9/11 was his fault has been thoroughly debunked, over and over.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  3. #223
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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I stand corrected.

    This point is interesting, though: Afghanistan has become America's longest war, stretching over 12 years since U.S. military forces were first sent in 2001, with well over 35,000 troops still there. Americans were initially more supportive of involvement in Afghanistan than they were for any recent major military intervention. They also maintained a generally supportive posture toward U.S. involvement in Afghanistan for a longer period of time than was the case for other wars. But Americans' waning patience with the conflict has finally reached the point at which Americans are as likely to say the war was a mistake as to say it was not.


    In other words, the poll is more an indication of American frustration with the longevity of the war more than anything. How many would have said in 2014 they supported the war if we actually pulled the troops out 5 years ago? I would bet good money it would be more than 50%.

    Except, the poll didn't ask whether we had been there too long, it asked whether or not our military operation was a mistake to begin with. And watch Geoist, I'll predict right now, Americans will be hugely in favor of a military operation against ISIS, now. Because most people pay far too little attention. It won't be until AFTER it has become painfully obvious that it too is a mistake that the mob will begin complaining it was a mistake. Governments know they can get away with it. It doesn't matter that BushCo knew they were lying about Iraq, they also knew that by the time the public figured it out, it would be long after "mission accomplished" which had nothing to do with defeating terrorism!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    On some issues I agree, and on others I disagree. Never have I come across anyone who's an exact duplicate or opposite. Such is the complex nature of life.

    As for Clinton, he can be blamed for many things, but the myth that 9/11 was his fault has been thoroughly debunked, over and over.
    The fact that he did/would not give the command to kill OBL when he had the chance alone makes him partially responsible does it not? IMO it does. Not to mention the myriad other reasons he can be held responsible. One thing I think you're missing in my statements about Clinton are that the problem with the ME was there before him ie he was dealing with a mess he didn't make. I am simply criticizing how hands off he was. Should he have been an interventionist? No. Should he have been a lot more involved with the ME? Definitely yes. There is a fine line to walk between too much/little involvement in the ME. That's why the POTUS gets paid the big bucks though. It's definitely not easy and Im not trying to portray that I think it is.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  5. #225
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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Except, the poll didn't ask whether we had been there too long, it asked whether or not our military operation was a mistake to begin with.
    And I'm simply saying the length of the war is probably a huge factor in people saying this.

    And watch Geoist, I'll predict right now, Americans will be hugely in favor of a military operation against ISIS, now.
    Yes, I think there are polls at this time showing support for military operations. I bet, though, support for an invasion such as with Afghanistan and Iraq is much much smaller.

    Because most people pay far too little attention. It won't be until AFTER it has become painfully obvious that it too is a mistake that the mob will begin complaining it was a mistake.
    Agreed.

    Governments know they can get away with it. It doesn't matter that BushCo knew they were lying about Iraq, they also knew that by the time the public figured it out, it would be long after "mission accomplished" which had nothing to do with defeating terrorism!
    Agreed. The sheeple are easily (mis)led.

    Do you think there is any role for the military in the ME? Or do you think it should be completely hands-off?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    And I'm simply saying the length of the war is probably a huge factor in people saying this.



    Yes, I think there are polls at this time showing support for military operations. I bet, though, support for an invasion such as with Afghanistan and Iraq is much much smaller.



    Agreed.



    Agreed. The sheeple are easily (mis)led.

    Do you think there is any role for the military in the ME? Or do you think it should be completely hands-off?
    You may well be correct with your first point. I need to look at this poll further.

    I would have said completely hands off from the beginning. But with decades of support now for militant Islamic groups, and the power vacuums that have been created in the last dozen years, we have, again, created for ourselves, and those poor citizens of the Middle East, a problem that is going to require the US military in some fashion. But I am personally sick of this, and want to see the US turn to policies that promote stability and containment of militant Islamists. Our policies have been counter to that with the most recent regime changes and the letting the IS out of the bag more recently. And now then our state department is blaming president Assad for IS when he's getting his ass kicked and has very little power and control left him. The US and other Western powers as well as at least two Arab States have been supporting the militant Islamic groups that president Assad has been fighting, and president Assad gets blamed for allowing IS to flourish and strengthen. So yeah, IS is a problem that our military is likely going to be used against, for me, begrudgingly, and only with the assurances that once we get the lid back on the ME, we begin to advance the policies referred to earlier. But what's the likelihood, I and others with this opinion, will get that? So you see my frustration.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The fact that he did/would not give the command to kill OBL when he had the chance alone makes him partially responsible does it not? IMO it does.
    To claim that Clinton is responsible for 9/11 because he chose not to launch an airstrike against bin Laden in 1998 is tantamount to putting 2 and 2 together and getting 17.

    Let's face facts: the only reason that any president feels obliged to be at all involved with the ME is to protect the oil operations that US companies run there. For as long as those operations are going on, there will always be militants wanting to damage US interests.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    To claim that Clinton is responsible for 9/11 because he chose not to launch an airstrike against bin Laden in 1998 is tantamount to putting 2 and 2 together and getting 17.

    Let's face facts: the only reason that any president feels obliged to be at all involved with the ME is to protect the oil operations that US companies run there. For as long as those operations are going on, there will always be militants wanting to damage US interests.
    Note that I said partially responsible, not fully. To blame 9/11 on one person oversimplifies a very complicated issue. However, it can't be denied that if he had given that order there is a very good chance that 9/11 would have never taken place. OBL was the mastermind behind that. Without him, that attack most likely never happens
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Note that I said partially responsible, not fully. To blame 9/11 on one person oversimplifies a very complicated issue. However, it can't be denied that if he had given that order there is a very good chance that 9/11 would have never taken place. OBL was the mastermind behind that. Without him, that attack most likely never happens
    So some other high-level AQ leader would have planned an attack that was equally (or perhaps more) damaging. Can't rule out that scenario, either.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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    Re: Rand Paul: As president I would 'destroy ISIS militarily[W:20]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    So some other high-level AQ leader would have planned an attack that was equally (or perhaps more) damaging. Can't rule out that scenario, either.
    Hence my use of "most likely" and not definitely.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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