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Thread: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

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    Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war

    Krynica (Poland) (AFP) - European military assistance to Ukraine could lead to a nuclear conflict between Russia and NATO, according to Poland's iconic cold warrior and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Lech Walesa.

    "It could lead to a nuclear war," the anti-Communist legend told reporters when asked whether the EU should send weapons to Ukraine to help it fights off separatist rebels and Russian aggression.

    "The EU is well aware that Russia has nuclear weapons. NATO has them too. Must we then destroy each other?" said the former Solidarity trade union leader famous for negotiating a bloodless end to communism in Poland in 1989.

    Russia and NATO square off over Ukraine

    Moscow (AFP) - Russia declared NATO a major "threat" on Tuesday after the Western military alliance announced plans to reinforce defences in eastern Europe because of the Kremlin's perceived stoking of war in Ukraine.

    Moscow's surprise declaration of a shift in its military doctrine came just ahead of a NATO summit in Wales on Thursday at which beleaguered Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko will lobby US President Barack Obama for military support.

    Obama will deliver a message of firm NATO support for its newest members from the former Soviet empire when he visits the tiny Baltic state of Estonia on Wednesday.

    The Russian national security council's deputy secretary Mikhail Popov said NATO's plan for new fast-response units in eastern Europe was "evidence of the desire of US and NATO leaders to continue their policy of aggravating tensions with Russia".


    Is this a situation that the US should use it's power and influence to encourage NATO to back off from, or help them?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    We should help. Only if we are ready for total war. Because Putin is ready for it.

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    We should help. Only if we are ready for total war. Because Putin is ready for it.
    If we let Putin continue, he may feel there's no reason to stop going after Baltic states. But if we back NATO and arm the Ukraine, he might ramp it up dramatically with heavy strikes.

    Dicey situation.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    If Russia will use nuclear weapons, they will eventually do so, regardless of what we do.

    At some point, the west is going to have to confront Putin. So... if he's gonna push the proverbial button, he will regardless.

    I seriously doubt that he will, as long as no one invades Russia proper. To do so would be suicide, and he knows it.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    If Russia will use nuclear weapons, they will eventually do so, regardless of what we do.

    At some point, the west is going to have to confront Putin. So... if he's gonna push the proverbial button, he will regardless.

    I seriously doubt that he will, as long as no one invades Russia proper. To so so would be suicide, and he knows it.

    I think whether he uses them or not has a lot to do with our responses. But we will have to make a decision on how far we're willing to put up resistance.

    I doubt he wants all out nuke war either. It wouldn't happen suddenly, it would be in reaction to a series of blundering military actions by aggressive field commanders.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I think whether he uses them or not has a lot to do with our responses. But we will have to make a decision on how far we're willing to put up resistance.

    I doubt he wants all out nuke war either. It wouldn't happen suddenly, it would be in reaction to a series of blundering military actions by aggressive field commanders.
    One concern I have is that nuclear use is not in Putin's hands like it is in the US. Russia gives the commanding general the final codes, and relies on chain of command loyalty to prevent a launch. Or at least that's the way it used to be. Not so sure if it's still that way.

    My primary concern is what would happen if we arm the Ukrainians and they cross into Russia - then we'd have a real problem and Putin would be justified in attacking us.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If we let Putin continue, he may feel there's no reason to stop going after Baltic states. But if we back NATO and arm the Ukraine, he might ramp it up dramatically with heavy strikes.

    Dicey situation.
    My bet is he is going to do that anyway. He wants to go back to cold war borders.

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    One concern I have is that nuclear use is not in Putin's hands like it is in the US. Russia gives the commanding general the final codes, and relies on chain of command loyalty to prevent a launch. Or at least that's the way it used to be. Not so sure if it's still that way.

    My primary concern is what would happen if we arm the Ukrainians and they cross into Russia - then we'd have a real problem and Putin would be justified in attacking us.
    NATO acts like they can't afford to back down and Russia isn't known too. So something has to give or the situation just keeps ramping up, with the Ukraine getting armed or backed up militarily.



    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    My bet is he is going to do that anyway. He wants to go back to cold war borders.
    I think he'll eventually stop once he gets as much as he thinks is possible, short of War with Europe/US.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    NATO acts like they can't afford to back down and Russia isn't known too. So something has to give or the situation just keeps ramping up, with the Ukraine getting armed or backed up militarily.

    I think he'll eventually stop once he gets as much as he thinks is possible, short of War with Europe/US.
    He "might" be worried about us, but Europe? Nope, not even alittle.

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    Re: Arming Ukraine could lead to nuclear war: Lech Walesa

    Send weapons to the Ukrainians.

    If Putin's going to use nukes over this, then he's more ****ing loony then anyone previously thought.

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