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"I'm Not Your Brother," Officer tazes Man in Front of His Children.

roguenuke said:
Don't have to. The fact that they were "asking" him not to leave means he was detained. They did not "just assault him". They were being civil to him and he was continually trying to leave. He was not free to go, yet he kept trying to leave. Then he resisted arrest. He refused to put his hands behind his back or cooperate. They can legally arrest you for trying to leave a legal detainment. And they have a right to legally detain someone involved in a complaint until they at least get the facts about the situation. Had he just stood there and waited for the police to talk to the security guard and check out the area, then likely nothing more would have happened. He likely would have been told he was free to go within minutes. Had something happened with him just waiting, he would have had a case. His actions destroy his case.
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I'm always free to go as I never consented to their authority. I have no reason to cooperate to their force, sorry. They want to issue force on others and then assault them they will get nothing from me.
 
Henrin said:
If they wanted him to leave from the start and then he decided to do it on his own I fail to see the problem. It seems to me he was doing as they asked.
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The police did not ask him to leave from the start. The security guard did. The police needed to get the information for why the guard called them in. It could have ended with them telling the guard that he had a right to be there. But instead of cooperating, he decided to refuse and cop an attitude toward them, including trying to leave while he was being detained.
 
roguenuke said:
You're free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true.
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I know what I consented to. Offer me proof otherwise.

Offer me proof that I consented to Jim bob ex high school bully having authority over me for the rest of my life.
 
roguenuke said:
The police did not ask him to leave from the start. The security guard did. The police needed to get the information for why the guard called them in. It could have ended with them telling the guard that he had a right to be there. But instead of cooperating, he decided to refuse and cop an attitude toward them, including trying to leave while he was being detained.
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The problem was he was in an area he did not belong, so exactly what is wrong with him leaving? Because he failed to comply with the polices faux authority? Bleh.
 
Henrin said:
I'm always free to go as I never consented to their authority. I have no reason to cooperate to their force, sorry. They want to issue force on others and then assault them they will get nothing from me.
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And if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are trespassing, refuse to leave when security informs you that you are trespassing, stand and be a jerk and jaw with the security for 16 minutes and have the olive called on you, and then attempt to walk away when the police respond to the call and refuse to cooperate you will be arrested and forcibly detained. Standing there informing the cops "you're not the boss of me!" Won't matter.
 
VanceMack said:
And if you ver find yourself in a situation where you are trespassing, refuse to leave when security informs you that you are trespassing, stand and be a jerk and jaw with the security for 16 minutes and have the olive called on you, and then attempt to walk away when the police respond to the call and refuse to cooperate you will be arrested and forcibly detained. Standing there informing the cops "you're not the boss of me!" Won't matter.
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Thanks captain. I will be sure to log that next to all the other authoritarian and obvious comments.

Weren't you the ex prison guard that didn't care about rape in prison? I wonder...
 
"Do what I say and don't move or I will beat the ****ing hell out of you." - Police everywhere

"Do what I say and don't move or I will beat the ****ing hell out of you." - Bullies everywhere

According to people that believe in police authority by default:

"In a free country police are run by the government and everyone complies to their authority over their person 100% of the time." Because obviously monopolies are awesome and actually relying on consent to have authority is a stupid concept.
 
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Henrin said:
The problem was he was in an area he did not belong, so exactly what is wrong with him leaving? Because he failed to comply with the polices faux authority? Bleh.
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The police still have to investigate. He cannot leave when he is involved in the investigation. It was a lawful detention. In all likelihood, if this goes to court, that is what any judge would say. I guarantee, if it was to be taken all the way up for whatever reason, the SCOTUS would say the same thing. The police were right here. This guy is just looking for a settlement.

A little clarification on rights when it comes to being detained.

http://police.ucdavis.edu/docs/know_your_rights.pdf
 
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roguenuke said:
The police still have to investigate. He cannot leave when he is involved in the investigation. It was a lawful detention. In all likelihood, if this goes to court, that is what any judge would say. I guarantee, if it was to be taken all the way up for whatever reason, the SCOTUS would say the same thing. The police were right here. This guy is just looking for a settlement.
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If the guy was in a restricted area, and he left the restricted area - the police should simply go back to eating their donuts.

Unfortunately, police are trained to unnecessarily escalate everything into violence against the citizenry. They are paid thugs in the employ of the police state.

I used to be a 'law and order' guy... but as the police have become more belligerent, and there are more and more laws against everything, it is entirely predictable that these types of senseless run-ins will only become more common - I have done a complete 180 in my views of the police.

I don't trust cops, I don't talk to cops, I give them a wide berth anytime I see one... they cannot be trusted to exercise good judgement.
 
Henrin said:
"Do what I say and don't move or I will beat the ****ing hell out of you." - Police everywhere

"Do what I say and don't move or I will beat the ****ing hell out of you." - Bullies everywhere

According to people that believe in police authority by default:

"In a free country police are run by the government and everyone complies to their authority over their person 100% of the time." Because obviously monopolies are awesome and actually relying on consent to have authority is a stupid concept.
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Nope...sorry...you are projecting. I believe you are thinking of someone else.

As for all that other stuff...well...go ahead try it. Pull out the 'I knows mah rights' card or the 'you aren't the boss of me' or 'I don't have to do what you tell me to do' when there has been a police complaint lodged and you are the suspect. Make sure you have someone record it and post it on the YouTube...especially the part where you get tazed and turn from defiant rebel to docile little girl shrieking I'm not resisting!!! I'm not resisting! Those are always a lot of fun to watch.
 
wist43 said:
If the guy was in a restricted area, and he left the restricted area - the police should simply go back to eating their donuts.

Unfortunately, police are trained to unnecessarily escalate everything into violence against the citizenry. They are paid thugs in the employ of the police state.

I used to be a 'law and order' guy... but as the police have become more belligerent, and there are more and more laws against everything, it is entirely predictable that these types of senseless run-ins will only become more common - I have done a complete 180 in my views of the police.

I don't trust cops, I don't talk to cops, I give them a wide berth anytime I see one... they cannot be trusted to exercise good judgement.
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This is only perpetuating more distrust between you and the cops, to have this attitude.
 
What if...? said:
"Your papers, please." Used to be a slur against totalitarian regimes.

Now it's us too.
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That's just silly. Law enforcement isn't walking up randomly to citizens and questioning them. By his own admission, He is guilty of what he was being accused of and refused to cooperate with the police. It's akin to a cop pulling you over for going 5 mph over the speed limit and you refusing to give your license and registration.
 
roguenuke said:
This is only perpetuating more distrust between you and the cops, to have this attitude.
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Our society is breaking down... we are slowly becoming an authoritarian state - a police state.

Statists have succeeded in turning the Constitution on its head - we no longer control our government, the government controls us - where the rubber meets the road, is cops being trained to be unthinking thugs.

Local police departments are militarizing - recently read a story where a guy posted something on his facebook page that the local overlords found offensive... shortly thereafter a SWAT team kicked his door in and hauled him off to jail - that is what passes for policing in 2014 Amerika.

Freedom is all-but dead in Amerika - I don't trust an Amerikan cop anymore than I would a Gestapo agent in 1938 Germany.
 
For some weird reason, I've been watching this terrible tv show called Campus PD which is like Cops but only about college kids. This incident makes me think of the show, because the cops have this attitude that they'll help you as long as you bend over backwards to make their jobs easier. In the one I watched last night, the cop responded to a noise complaint and was let into the house by a person who very, very clearly said they didn't live there. The kid who did live there complained that they had entered his house without his approval, so the cops handcuffed him and detained him in a squad car, then said they were giving him a citation only because he argued with them and he wouldn't have received it had he shut up.

Those cops are horrible, and it's just like the cops here. Police officers shouldn't treat people differently because they want to be assertive about protecting their rights. If I were in this guy's situation, I would have given them my ID, just like if I were the kid in the stupid Campus PD show, I would have done exactly what they told me to do. But I admire anybody who politely refuses to do something they feel is unfair and illegal (or at the very least, against standard procedure).

I'm from Minneapolis, and what a lot of people probably don't know is that the skyway is a series of elevated tunnels connecting major buildings in downtown and it is a public place. There are homeless people who basically live there. If you're sitting in a chair in the skyway, it shouldn't be a private place and you would never have any reason to believe that it is a private place. I've heard a lot of people talking about this issue and saying that they've sat in the same place and nobody came up to them complaining that they were sitting there. This man was unfairly targeted and whether or not the police did anything illegal is secondary to that point - to me at least.
 
I think the average person needs to convince themselves that police authority, and its ways of becoming almost absolute, is not a problem. Its like they are bleeding from their asshole so turn off the lights instead of seeing the doctor. I mean... If the average cop would lie in a report then imagine what America does to war prisoners and stuff. Cant afford to think about these sorts of things. To them police are blanket-permit messiahs.
 
VanceMack said:
Nope...sorry...you are projecting. I believe you are thinking of someone else.

As for all that other stuff...well...go ahead try it. Pull out the 'I knows mah rights' card or the 'you aren't the boss of me' or 'I don't have to do what you tell me to do' when there has been a police complaint lodged and you are the suspect. Make sure you have someone record it and post it on the YouTube...especially the part where you get tazed and turn from defiant rebel to docile little girl shrieking I'm not resisting!!! I'm not resisting! Those are always a lot of fun to watch.
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No, I'm not thinking of someone else. I remember your posts well from just last week in a thread about the prisoner that is suing the prison. It is a fact that prison guards are responsible for many of the rapes that happen in prison and here you are making arguments that belittle those prisoners and making it a point to say you were a prison guard. Was I not supposed to notice?

As for the rest of your argument, anyone can issue violence onto others and claim they have authority over them. It means nothing and does not mean in any sort of way that the police officers authority was consented to by the individual they are being violent towards. Just because someone screams for an aggressor to stop and pleads for their own life/safety does not mean they consented either.

I'm being defiant because I did NOT consent to the police authority over my person. It's the same thing I used to do back when I was grade school and a bully was giving me ****. Hell, its the same ****ing thing just decades later. The behavior of the parties in play is exactly the same.
 
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Henrin said:
No, I'm not thinking of someone else. I remember your posts well from just last week in a thread about the prisoner that is suing the prison. It is a fact that prison guards are responsible for many of the rapes that happen in prison and here you are making arguments that belittle those prisoners and making it a point to say you were a prison guard. Was I not supposed to notice?

As for the rest of your argument, anyone can issue violence onto others and claim they have authority over them. It means nothing and does not mean in any sort of way that the police officers authority was consented to by the individual they are being violent towards. Just because someone screams for an aggressor to stop and pleads for their own life/safety does not mean they consented either.

I'm being defiant because I did NOT consent to the police authority over my person. It's the same thing I used to do back when I was grade school and a bully was giving me ****. Hell, its the same ****ing thing just decades later. The behavior of the parties in play is exactly the same.
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No...you dont remember them anywhere near as well as you think you do. Try again.

The first time, its a mistake. Repeat it...its a lie. But you are more than welcome to produce the posts to prove it. I'll give you a hint though...I think you are probably referencing "CriticalThought" and not me. But...feel free to try and back up your allegation. You will find you are mistaken. I wonder if at that point you will have the grace to apologize.

The guy was being a dick to the security guards and he had the cops called on him. When the cops showed up, he tried to haul ass and then refused to so much as give his name. Sorry...it doesnt work that way.
 
VanceMack said:
No...you dont remember them anywhere near as well as you think you do. Try again.

The first time, its a mistake. Repeat it...its a lie. But you are more than welcome to produce the posts to prove it. I'll give you a hint though...I think you are probably referencing "CriticalThought" and not me. But...feel free to try and back up your allegation. You will find you are mistaken. I wonder if at that point you will have the grace to apologize.
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No, he made his pro rape post on the first page and from what I recall never came back. From his post you can guess what actions he took part in as a prison guard with a pretty good chance of being right. You took a while to get the point home, but you made it none the less.

As for saying sorry, no, I will not apologize to a ex-prison guard. That is something that will not happen. Throw me in a cell with a rapist if it makes you feel better.

The guy was being a dick to the security guards and he had the cops called on him. When the cops showed up, he tried to haul ass and then refused to so much as give his name. Sorry...it doesnt work that way.
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So where the cops.
 
Henrin said:
No, he made his pro rape post on the first page and from what I recall never came back. From his post you can guess what actions he took part in as a prison guard with a pretty good chance of being right. You took a while to get the point home, but you made it none the less.
As for saying sorry, no, I will not apologize to a ex-prison guard. That is something that will not happen. Throw me in a cell with a rapist if it makes you feel better.
So where the cops.
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You arent running a very good track record of being 'right' about 'anything', are you. I was never a prison guard, never represented myself as a prison guard, and never celebrated or endorsed that the child molester that was raped in prison be raped in prison. I said I worked in a prison and did...as a group therapist working closer on a day to day basis with prisoners than most people that pretend to give a **** about them could ever imagine. You are lying and when that reality is proven, you cant even admit that. Your credibility is for ****. But really...thats OK. wouldnt expect anything more from you.

As for all this other inane childish bull**** about your rights..the simple fact of the matter is the individual was trespassing...he was told he had to leave. He by HIS OWN ADMISSION jawed at the security guards for 16 minutes during which time they called the police on him for committing an illegal act. The police LEGALLY responding to a criminal complaint and the criminal suspect...a complete and total doucheba that CREATED the whole situation, then CONTINUED being a douchebag and refused to cooperate with an investigation of an alleged criminal act at which time he was apprehended. Period. That you and others are whining about how his rights were violated is just stupid and childish.
 
VanceMack said:
You arent running a very good track record of being 'right' about 'anything', are you. I was never a prison guard, never represented myself as a prison guard, and never celebrated or endorsed that the child molester that was raped in prison be raped in prison. I said I worked in a prison and did...as a group therapist working closer on a day to day basis with prisoners than most people that pretend to give a **** about them could ever imagine. You are lying and when that reality is proven, you cant even admit that. Your credibility is for ****. But really...thats OK. wouldnt expect anything more from you.

As for all this other inane childish bull**** about your rights..the simple fact of the matter is the individual was trespassing...he was told he had to leave. He by HIS OWN ADMISSION jawed at the security guards for 16 minutes during which time they called the police on him for committing an illegal act. The police LEGALLY responding to a criminal complaint and the criminal suspect...a complete and total doucheba that CREATED the whole situation, then CONTINUED being a douchebag and refused to cooperate with an investigation of an alleged criminal act at which time he was apprehended. Period. That you and others are whining about how his rights were violated is just stupid and childish.
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You can capitalize the word legally all you want. It doesn't change my argument at all. Imposing your authority over me when I never consented to it is still the reality of the situation in my argument. Saying it is legal has absolutely no effect on my argument. Guess what? I didn't consent to being governed either. Just because the guy was a douchebag doesn't mean anything either. He has all the right in the world to be a douchebag to anyone he desires.

If what you say about yourself is true all it changes is that you benefited from the actions of prison guards instead of taking part in them yourself. I still have no intention to apologize to you.
 
reinoe said:
The police do not have a right to demand we identify ourselves if we've done nothing wrong. Although such practices are common in Europe, this is America.
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Also, the video I saw showed this man walking away. If the police were there to have him leave and he was leaving, why didn't the cops just let him leave?
 
Henrin said:
You can capitalize the word legally all you want. It doesn't change my argument at all. Imposing your authority over me when I never consented to it is still the reality of the situation in my argument. Saying it is legal has absolutely no effect on my argument. Guess what? I didn't consent to being governed either. Just because the guy was a douchebag doesn't mean anything either. He has all the right in the world to be a douchebag to anyone he desires.

If what you say about yourself is true all it changes is that you benefited from the actions of prison guards instead of taking part in them yourself. I still have no intention to apologize to you.
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Believe me when I say I had no expectation for you to take personal responsibility for your own words. "Personal responsibility"...thats just a cute catchy phrase for you, isnt it. Thats rhetorical BTW...not a question.

Law Enforcement in a society of laws engages when people are accused of committing crimes. Its cute that you think they have no 'authority' over you.

Dont forget the video when its your turn...k?
 
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VanceMack said:
Believe me when I say I had no expectation for you to take personal responsibility for your own words. Personal responsibility"...thats just a cute catchy phrase for you, isnt it. Thats rhetorical BTW...not a question.

Law Enforcement in a society of laws engages when people are accused of committing crimes. Its cute that you think they have no 'authority' over you.

Dont forget the video when its your turn...k?
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In order for people to have authority over me in a 'free' society I must agree to it. It's works on the same principle as a guard you hire for your business just on a bigger scale. Again, just because you can issue aggression towards someone doesn't mean they agreed to anything.
 
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