That's a fact most or all gun owners are keenly aware of. Since the media didn't exploit Mr.Lollie as a law braker (the media only popularizes negative gun-owner stories) I therefore assume he wasn't armed.
When you then say I don't speak for all gun owners, that sounds to me like you're including Lollie in 'all gun owners', and so I asked where you read that Lollie had a gun.
I assume Lollie did not have a gun, therefore never took a permit class on law, therefore didn't realize you have to leave when asked regardless.
Last edited by Jerry; 08-31-14 at 09:48 PM.
Is society was made of coral our world would be floral.
The guy seems like he has a chip on his shoulder. He could--and should--just have calmly complied with the initial request to show his ID. Brief investigatory detentions by police are sometimes called "stop-and-frisks" or "Terry stops," after the Supreme Court decision that authorized them.
Police do not violate a person's Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable seizures by making an investigatory detention, provided it is brief and they have reasonable suspicion of a completed crime, or that criminal activity is occurring or may be about to occur. Reasonable suspicion has to be based on articulable facts--i.e. it must be more than just a hunch. There is no fixed standard for reasonable suspicion--it is based on the totality of the circumstances.
The notion that police cannot briefly stop a person and ask what he's doing, ask for ID, and so on, is nonsense. They certainly can do that. And the detainee's demeanor is part of the totality of the circumstances. If the person becomes uncooperative, loud, etc. during the investigatory detention--particularly if he refuses to identify himself and briefly explain what he's doing there--it may cause the initial reasonable suspicion that gave rise to the detention to increase to the probable cause needed for an arrest.
I don't know if these police met the required standards in dealing with this guy. But acting the way he did is really dumb, because police can easily take your agitation and challenging tone as a sign you've got something to hide. And for all we know, being where this guy was at that time of day, alone, could be behavior they have learned is typical of certain kinds of criminals. Best just to be friendly, cooperative, show your ID, and explain what you're doing. And if for some reason you are arrested anyway, go calmly to the station, and then, once you're there, if you think an officer was out of line, get the badge number and file a complaint.
Last edited by matchlight; 08-31-14 at 09:59 PM.
Last edited by Henrin; 08-31-14 at 10:01 PM.
America has abandoned the rule of law - the government is no longer accountable to the rule of law. If the government is unaccountable and unconstrained - it can abuse you and your freedom all it wants, whenever it wants. Just b/c you haven't been set upon yet - yet being the operative word there - doesn't mean that you can't be, or you won't be.
If you fancy yourself a libertarian - so much so that you choose to identify yourself as such on a public forum - I can assure you, you are on the governments radar.
We are not that far away from collapse. Once that happens, you're going to get a quick lesson in just how free you are not.