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Thread: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist
    The Defense Department on Friday pushed back against Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s (R) claim that fighters from the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) might have entered the United States across its southern border.Perry, who is weighing another run for the president in 2016, made the assertion Thursday during a speech at the conservative Heritage Foundation.

    "There's the obvious great concern that, because of the condition of the border from the standpoint of it not being secure, and us not knowing who is penetrating across, that individuals from ISIS or other terrorist states could be [crossing]," he said. "There's a very real possibility that they may have already used that [strategy]."
    But the Pentagon’s top spokesman, Rear Adm. John Kirby, shot down that allegation.

    “I've seen no indication that they are coming across the border with Mexico. We have no information that leads us to believe that,” he said on CNN’s "New Day."
    Kirby said Pentagon leaders know the terrorist group does have “aspirations to hit western targets” and that the threat is something “we’ve got to take seriously, and we have to be ready for it.”
    Rick Perry recently stated that ISIS might have entered the US through the Mexican border.... Well... It seems to just be more bull**** out of Perry's mouth
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Leaked CBP Report Shows Entire World Exploiting Open US Border

    People from 75 different countries have been captured at the border. ISIS has members from all over the world.

    Since they don't catch but a small percentage, who knows who's here.
    When people with partisan views want to a yarn to support a specific narrative, they really go all out! A closer look at the leaked CBP report puts things a little more in focus:

    The report reveals the apprehension numbers ranging from 2010 through July 2014. It shows that most of the human smuggling from Syria and Albania into the U.S. comes through Central America. The report also indicates the routes individuals from North Africa and the Middle East take into the European Union, either to illegally migrate there or as a possible stop in their journey to the United States. The data are broken down further into the specific U.S. border sectors where the apprehensions and contact occurred.
    In other words, there's NO concrete evidence to support Gov. Perry's accusation that members from the Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian terrorist group ISIS/ISIL are entering the U.S. via the U.S./Mexico border.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Perry is just jerking peoples' chains with hollow rhetoric to rile them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Possible don't mean squat.
    A zillion and one things are possible.

    We cannot effectively plan for all possibilities--it'd be a stupid waste.
    Given that resources in the real world are limited, we have to plan for what is probable.
    I also used the word "might." If they are already here, this thread is a waste of our time, isn't it?

    Greetings, Simon W. Moon.

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Any proof that there are any ISIS people here via the Mexican border? Again, no.
    We know this, because Pentagon personel are patrolling the border?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    When people with partisan views want to a yarn to support a specific narrative, they really go all out! A closer look at the leaked CBP report puts things a little more in focus:



    In other words, there's NO concrete evidence to support Gov. Perry's accusation that members from the Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian terrorist group ISIS/ISIL are entering the U.S. via the U.S./Mexico border.
    So still no evidence. Just stating: "well most people that come here from Syria and Albania come from Central America".


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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Perry never said they already crossed, he said they could easily cross and be operating here. Now that is a possibility and considering the length of time the CBP has been preoccupied babysitting, its certainly easier. Its a valid concern. Do you believe that ISIS doesn't have the funding, planning or ambition to make the attempt?
    That's the classic slippery slope argument, i.e., "if you don't do this, that is likely to happen". The crazy thing is folks really do believe the hype! Gov. Perry's clearly playing the illegal immigration card to wiggle his way back into the GOP presidential hopeful limelight and folks are buying it hook, line and sinker. He plays on the border security angle first using illegal alien crossings, then with terrorist. And as usually, people buy into the fear factor.

    I won't discount there isn't reason to be concerned about terrorist coming into our country and forming sleeper cells in the process. After all, that's exactly what happened in 1993 and in 2001 (WTC bombing and 9/11, respectively) and if our intelligence and law enforcement agencies (local, state and federal) don't remain vigilant I won't deny that something like that couldn't happen again, but folks have to see Gov. Perry's words for what they are: insighting fear for political gain. It's nothing more than a ploy to play on your emotions without a shred of truth to his claim.

    Be concerned, certainly, but DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We know this, because Pentagon personel are patrolling the border?
    Still watiting for your evidence or are you gonna settle on an ad hominiem?


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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Any proof that they are ISIS members? As the Pentagon said: "“I've seen no indication that they are coming across the border with Mexico. We have no information that leads us to believe that." Or are we just going to go with the argument that "well ISIS has members all over the world, so they could be". That augment is not evidence.
    While I agree the second sentiment is hogwash, I find the first sentiment interesting. Two words in particular come to mind -- plausible deniability... IMHO, it looks like a carefully-worded statement that is designed to appease and soothe the general public, while at the same time saying, "We don't really have a freaking clue what's going on."

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Why in the hell would ISIS members need to pose as Hispanic, payoff Mexican criminal organizations, and sneak across hundreds of miles of desert wasteland to get here via our southern border when easily hundreds of them hold British Passports and could fly here first class if they wanted?
    They wouldn't, necessarily. But those are the "higher ups" in leadership positions, usually. The guy with the ability to travel first class isn't likely to be the one carrying out the actual act of terror. I'm pretty sure those positions are for the lowly grunts we see on the monkey bars in the desert. While it's pure speculation on my part, I would think exploiting the weakness of our southern border could be a pretty effective method for getting a fairly large group of those people into the US in one fell swoop.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Bottom line here is I find it interesting that Pentagon released this as the official statement when the comments from Secretary Hagel and General Dempsey have talked up the threat level of this group as well as their motivations and sophistication. Again, goes back to simply asking how can the Pentagon definitively know that? Are they tracking every person crossing the border? Does the intelligence account for every member of ISIS?
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    How can the Pentagon know that they have no evidence of ISIS crossing into the US?
    They would ask their personnel tasked with following ISIS I suppose.
    How would you set about ascertaining the knowledge that your organization has?
    IIRC, I read that as of now our "intelligence" capability (as in the real world, live, first-person kind) is seriously lacking in that part of the world. It was one of the reasons they underestimated ISIS in the first place.



    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    My office has politics, but we're not politicians.
    The DoD is not a politician. [What a wierd-ass thing to have to say]
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    No, simply pointing out that he is a press secretary. He's handed the talking points by Pentagon leadership. This set of talking points was likely directed to questions that would likely to arise from Perry's statement. You don't think the Pentagon is politics free....do you?
    I would argue those at the top of the DoD food-chain are, in fact, politicians.
    politician: definition of politician in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

    Particularly in an organization structured like this :
    US Deparment of Defense Organization Charts




    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Not necessarily. These people are not idiots. If they want to hit us, they are not going to take a British citizen and repatriate him to ISIS controlled areas prior to sending them here. They would just send those friendly to their cause directly from Britain to here.
    There are millions of people that hold dual passports, not to mention three or more, legitimately... It's not uncommon to travel on them all, depending on the destination.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How many Pentagon personel are actually on the ground, at the border?
    Very few, I'd imagine. Even then, I highly doubt the Pentagon personnel are the ones standing in the desert heat, checking credentials on a regular basis...

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We know this, because Pentagon personel are patrolling the border?
    Not they're job. However, in a broader scope as part of defensive strategy, DoD is kept abreast of threats to the U.S. both foreign and domestic via our intelligence agencies, i.e., FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS which CBP is under. (See CBP's Organization chart; and for those who doubt the connection between CBP, DHS and DoD, see DHS' Organization chart.)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-27-14 at 10:53 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Pentagon personnel tend to be civilians and their bosses are Obama's political appointments.

    Now the uniform part of the military have been on the border and they see things differently than the Obama administration.

    Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now ‘Existential’ Threat to U.S.

    >" A top United States general in charge of protecting the southern border says he’s been unable to combat the steady flow of illegal drugs, weapons and people from Central America, and is looking to Congress for urgent help.

    Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, commander of U.S. Southern Command, has asked Congress this year for more money, drones and ships for his mission – a request unlikely to be met. Since October, an influx of nearly 100,000 migrants has made the dangerous journey north from Latin America to the United States border. Most are children, and three-quarters of the unaccompanied minors have traveled thousands of miles from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

    “In comparison to other global threats, the near collapse of societies in the hemisphere with the associated drug and [undocumented immigrant] flow are frequently viewed to be of low importance,” Kelly told Defense One. “Many argue these threats are not existential and do not challenge our national security. I disagree.”

    In spring hearings before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees, Kelly said that budgets cuts are “severely degrading” the military’s ability to defend southern approaches to the U.S border. Last year, he said, his task force was unable to act on nearly 75 percent of illicit trafficking events. “I simply sit and watch it go by,” he said. But the potential threats are even greater. Kelly warned that neglect has created vulnerabilities that can be exploited by terrorist groups, describing a “crime-terror convergence” already seen in Lebanese Hezbollah’s involvement in the region..."<

    Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now
    This can be expected when the people actually doing the work are ignored by those who think they know everything better! That type of thinking is quickly rooted out in the business world, since they have to be profitable or go bankrupt, but in government - meh - not so much. :

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    Re: Pentagon: No evidence of ISIS at border

    Quote Originally Posted by Doppelgangirl View Post
    I would argue those at the top of the DoD food-chain are, in fact, politicians.
    politician: definition of politician in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

    Particularly in an organization structured like this :
    US Deparment of Defense Organization Charts
    You are welcome to argue that. But it's still equivocation.

    As I noted before one could make the case in much the same way as you have above that al Qaeda is a tea drinking social club
    But calling aQ a tea society is stupid, useless, and wrong.
    It's also equivocation.

    Equivocation is an effective seducer of netizens who are motivated to believe.

    As an fyi for everyone
    Pretty much any time you have to resort to citing a dictionary to show that two different things are actually the same, you're using equivocation.
    I may be wrong.

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