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Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits

DA60

DA60

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'More Americans than ever before are tapping government benefits. As WSJ reports, nearly half of Americans, 49.5%, lived in a household where at least one person was receiving some type of government benefit.'

Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits | Zero Hedge

Aging Americans Boost Share of Population Who Receive Government Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

20140820_half.jpg



This is what bigger governments and massive government spending brings...huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can.
 
DA60 said:
'More Americans than ever before are tapping government benefits. As WSJ reports, nearly half of Americans, 49.5%, lived in a household where at least one person was receiving some type of government benefit.'

Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits | Zero Hedge

Aging Americans Boost Share of Population Who Receive Government Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

20140820_half.jpg



This is what bigger governments and massive government spending brings...huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can.
Click to expand...

I have been following this develop and am very sure there will need to be a severe correction to the system. When Germany got into that situation a few years ago, they cut the benefits that the government had promised and collected payments for in previous decades.
 
There's 2.6 people per household in the US (try and figure out who the .6 is in your household, if you live by yourself, you must be fat), so, if half of all people live in a household with one person drawing a benefit, then 25% of people are on benefits. Right? My maths skills are soggy.

However, receiving benefits doesn't mean people don't work, or haven't worked.
 
spud_meister said:
There's 2.6 people per household in the US (try and figure out who the .6 is in your household, if you live by yourself, you must be fat), so, if half of all people live in a household with one person drawing a benefit, then 25% of people are on benefits. Right? My maths skills are soggy.

However, receiving benefits doesn't mean people don't work, or haven't worked.
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No it is a bull**** statistic... the OP one.

For example, you move home with your parents because you lost your job and cant keep your home.. this happens quite a lot these days. Your parents are retired.. and bingo, the whole household is now on benefits! Even if you have a job but live with your parents who are retired.. half your house hold (actually more if you are single and living with both parents) is on government support.

We have to be careful with this kind of statistic, since what it includes is often key. Does it include people on Social Security? Yes it does, but that is over 13% of the US population that is on that. Is that fair? They have paid for that privilege after all. How about government workers? Are they included.. dont know as it does not say, but that includes the military. Is it a government benefit? Technically yes. How about students who got government student loans? They included? How about people on food stamps.. yes they are included, but as we know even middle class people are on food stamps these days due to the economic crisis. Is it fair to demonize people on food stamps for something that they had no influence on?

The fact of the matter is not the statistic it self, but why people are part of that statistic.

First off we have to disregard people on Social Security. So the real % is down to 35ish%, still high for some.

Secondly why are people getting government benefits of any kind? Poverty and income inequality. Tackle them, and lower the amount on benefits.

Problem is of course, no one wants to tackle this stuff and find it much easier to just cut benefits and force people into "finding out themselves". In reality it just pushes people into worse poverty and eventually crime. Why? Because the fundamental problems that caused the joblessness and inequality still exist and without fixing them you dont change anything. It is 1929-1933 all over again.. and people on especially the right, cant see it for partisan political reasons.

Lets tackle one issue... the nr. 1 reason for personal bankruptcy in the US... medical expenses. And no, you dont tackle it by making it harder to go bankrupt over medical expenses... But tackle the medical industry and lower costs.. there is no reason that an operation should cost 100k+ when it costs 1/10th of that outside the US. It is stuff like this, and many other issues, that cause the rise in people on government benefits.
 
spud_meister said:
There's 2.6 people per household in the US (try and figure out who the .6 is in your household, if you live by yourself, you must be fat), so, if half of all people live in a household with one person drawing a benefit, then 25% of people are on benefits. Right? My maths skills are soggy.

However, receiving benefits doesn't mean people don't work, or haven't worked.
Click to expand...

Nobody in this thread has yet said it did (though I doubt you are so naive to think that there are not millions - tens of millions? - of Americans who work less harder then they could because they get government assistance).


But, if people are receiving government benefits, it falls into two categories...those that need it and those that do not.

Those that need it means that whatever they are working at, it is innsufficient to meet what most Americans would call adequate living standards. And considering over 46 million Americans receive food stamps - just that number alone is, IMO, ridiculously high.
The points to a failure in the economy.

And to those that do not need it...then the government is giving out taxpayer dollars in wasteful ways. That points to a failure in how the government is run.

Either way, the government is doing a lousy job at running the nation (I include both GW Bush AND Obama administrations).
 
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DA60 said:
Nobody in this thread has yet said it did (though I doubt you are so naive to think that there are not millions - tens of millions? - of Americans who work less harder then they could because they get government assistance).
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Well, considering the thread title implies anyone on welfare is "dependent on government", and the closing sentence of the OP read:
huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can
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So, yeah, it has been said, or at least strongly implied.

But, if people are receiving government benefits, it falls into two categories...those that need it and those that do not.

Those that need it means that whatever they are working at, it is innsufficient to meet what most Americans would call adequate living standards. And considering over 46 million Americans receive food stamps - just that number alone is, IMO, ridiculously high.
The points to a failure in the economy.

And to those that do not need it...then the government is giving out taxpayer dollars in wasteful ways. That points to a failure in how the government is run.

Either way, the government is doing a lousy job at ruining the nation (I include both GW Bush AND Obama administrations).
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, the welfare system is inefficient and doesn't encourage people to seek work. It needs a massive overhaul.
 
spud_meister said:
Well, considering the thread title implies anyone on welfare is "dependent on government", and the closing sentence of the OP read:


So, yeah, it has been said, or at least strongly implied.
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No, with respect, you inferred it that way.

I did not say it or imply it.

To imply is to suggest...and since I typed it, then only I know what I was suggesting.
And what I was suggesting was that huge numbers (even 2 million is a huge number to me) of people on government assistance are 'taking it easy' at tax payers expense.

Just how many...I do not know.

Your inference was perhaps understandable...but it was erroneous.

Which was my point.

Though I admit I should have been more specific.


Btw...I liked your math above.
 
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DA60 said:
Nobody in this thread has yet said it did (though I doubt you are so naive to think that there are not millions - tens of millions? - of Americans who work less harder then they could because they get government assistance).


But, if people are receiving government benefits, it falls into two categories...those that need it and those that do not.

Those that need it means that whatever they are working at, it is innsufficient to meet what most Americans would call adequate living standards. And considering over 46 million Americans receive food stamps - just that number alone is, IMO, ridiculously high.
The points to a failure in the economy.

And to those that do not need it...then the government is giving out taxpayer dollars in wasteful ways. That points to a failure in how the government is run.

Either way, the government is doing a lousy job at running the nation (I include both GW Bush AND Obama administrations).
Click to expand...
That isn't true at all. As an example, those over 66 are entitled to receive Social Security and also work. I have a colleague in this situation who has a six-figure income and receives SSA benefits. Does he need that income? Probably not but he s entitled to it.

But there is a portion of what you said that is correct. Some people work but also need government benefits to get by. Walmart workers come to mind, who are encouraged to apply for Medicaid and Snap. The remedy is higher wages and reversing the concentration of income into a tiny elite.
 
DA60 said:
'More Americans than ever before are tapping government benefits. As WSJ reports, nearly half of Americans, 49.5%, lived in a household where at least one person was receiving some type of government benefit.'

Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits | Zero Hedge

Aging Americans Boost Share of Population Who Receive Government Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

20140820_half.jpg



This is what bigger governments and massive government spending brings...huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can.
Click to expand...

I hope you are not including Social Security benefits in this category. Because those are benefits that have been EARNED.
 
DA60 said:
'More Americans than ever before are tapping government benefits. As WSJ reports, nearly half of Americans, 49.5%, lived in a household where at least one person was receiving some type of government benefit.'

Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits | Zero Hedge

Aging Americans Boost Share of Population Who Receive Government Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

20140820_half.jpg



This is what bigger governments and massive government spending brings...huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can.
Click to expand...

I get where they are going with these articles but they don't paint a whole picture. I agree to a point but they cherry picked data and spun it.

Both articles are BS.
First they don't give a statistical breakdown.
Second, they don't include that people have contributed towards Social Security and Federal Retirement.
They don't mention the military so I would assume they included the military in the data.
They don't mention retired military.
This is just off the top of my head, without thinking about it much.

I receive money from FERS (Federal Employees Retirement System) that I contributed. They collect a higher percentage of a federal employees pay than they pay out. They collect it longer than a federal employee will collect it for. Net gain, government. I contributed more than I will get back.
They don't mention that the people that are retired on Social Security contributed more than they will ever get. Net gain, government.

I am not saying that there aren't a massive amount of free loaders because there are. I am saying that this data is flawed as it is presented.
 
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Stats like this love to inflate their numbers by including people collecting social security or housing tax credits. Congratulations, every homeowner in America, you're "dependent upon the government."

Sort of like deployed combat troops were among Romney's 47% who "couldn't be convinced to take responsibility for themselves."
 
DA60 said:
'More Americans than ever before are tapping government benefits. As WSJ reports, nearly half of Americans, 49.5%, lived in a household where at least one person was receiving some type of government benefit.'

Half Of All Americans Live With Someone Dependent On Government Benefits | Zero Hedge

Aging Americans Boost Share of Population Who Receive Government Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

This is what bigger governments and massive government spending brings...huge numbers of people sitting on their ass all day because they can.
Click to expand...

from the second article:

The types of benefits run the gamut, from Social Security to unemployment compensation to food stamps.
Click to expand...

Of course the amount is automatically going to increase because we have Baby Boomers that have and are currently retiring so Social Security also goes up. The article tries to make the claim that 49.5% are somehow freeloaders when FERS and Social Security are things that have been EARNED. Not only that given the economy and jobs we also have a high number of companies that have left more and more people are out of work.

Now, I'm not excusing that entirely as I have been posting for years that unemployment, SSD and welfare need serious reforms and REAL oversight.
 
Amanda1858 said:
I hope you are not including Social Security benefits in this category. Because those are benefits that have been EARNED.
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Pretty much all benefits are earned. Everyone pays some taxes in this country, and most people who collect benefits from the safety net only do so for a short time. Before and after, and often during that time, they work, contribute to the economy, and pay income tax. There is no lazy underclass in this country, yet people throw that idea out there as if it were gospel. It's not, and the numbers debunk this nonsense time and time again. The only people who obtain benefits without contributing are children, and how insane would we have to be to begrudge them that?
 
Paschendale said:
Pretty much all benefits are earned. Everyone pays some taxes in this country, and most people who collect benefits from the safety net only do so for a short time. Before and after, and often during that time, they work, contribute to the economy, and pay income tax. There is no lazy underclass in this country, yet people throw that idea out there as if it were gospel. It's not, and the numbers debunk this nonsense time and time again. The only people who obtain benefits without contributing are children, and how insane would we have to be to begrudge them that?
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But ".4% of Americans are leeches" doesn't make as good a headline in right-wing blogs as "half of Americans are leeches."
 
Deuce said:
But ".4% of Americans are leeches" doesn't make as good a headline in right-wing blogs as "half of Americans are leeches."
Click to expand...

I've never understood how a movement can be so chest-thumpingly patriotic and claim to love America with such fervor, and yet carry such passionate hatred for so many Americans.
 
Paschendale said:
Pretty much all benefits are earned.
Click to expand...
Baloney. Welfare isnt earned. Neither is unemployment benefits from the governemnt. Also SS benefits are unearned once the benefits go above the person's contributions. Thats pretty much parasitism.
 
spud_meister said:
I don't disagree, the welfare system is inefficient and doesn't encourage people to seek work. It needs a massive overhaul.
Click to expand...


Really?

"...The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) is a United States federal law considered to be a fundamental shift in both the method and goal of federal cash assistance to the poor. The bill added a workforce development component to welfare legislation, encouraging employment among the poor. The bill was a cornerstone of the Republican Contract with America and was introduced by Rep. E. Clay Shaw, Jr. (R-FL-22). Bill Clinton signed PRWORA into law on August 22, 1996, fulfilling his 1992 campaign promise to "end welfare as we have come to know it".[1]

Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Moot said:
Really?

"...The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) is a United States federal law considered to be a fundamental shift in both the method and goal of federal cash assistance to the poor. The bill added a workforce development component to welfare legislation, encouraging employment among the poor. The bill was a cornerstone of the Republican Contract with America and was introduced by Rep. E. Clay Shaw, Jr. (R-FL-22). Bill Clinton signed PRWORA into law on August 22, 1996, fulfilling his 1992 campaign promise to "end welfare as we have come to know it".[1]

Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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And the results of that?

According to this (I'm not sure if the link works), it had no visible effect on the trend.
 
PoS said:
Baloney. Welfare isnt earned. Neither is unemployment benefits from the governemnt. Also SS benefits are unearned once the benefits go above the person's contributions. Thats pretty much parasitism.
Click to expand...

Virtually everyone who receives TANF benefits either is working, or has worked, and therefore paid taxes to support such systems. Unemployment benefits are insurance paid for by workers. Everyone who has ever worked a job has paid for social security. So, what's your complaint, exactly?
 
spud_meister said:
And the results of that?

According to this (I'm not sure if the link works), it had no visible effect on the trend.
Click to expand...

Why would it? Unemployment rates are a result of a lot of factors, most of them beyond the control of the unemployed. More people looking for jobs doesn't magically create more jobs. The number of people collecting unemployment or welfare is a result of unemployment rates, not a cause of them.

What you're looking for is a trend in how quickly people moved from social safety nets to self-sufficiency.
 
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