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Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame [WL:168]

Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
The police are under the executive branch of government. They are the government. Are you seriously going to argue that fact? What's next? Pepper spray is just a food condiment and someone telling you that they'll "shell you" if you don't move is a pick up line?
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The police in Ferguson Missouri are under the executive branch of Missouri, not Barack Obama. Care to point out how many Libertarians on this board have been posting for years that you can't trust the government of Missouri? I'll wait.

The pepper spray line wasn't funny when you posted it the first time. Why are you posting it again?
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

the AP and MSNBC earlier reported his friend admitted to the robbery

it now sounds as if the store owner is terrified....and maybe afraid of retribution from the neighborhood

so maybe he is changing his story?

dont know....but i guarantee the cops got his statement days ago, and that will be in the final reports
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

tres borrachos said:
The police in Ferguson Missouri are under the executive branch of Missouri,
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You really are somebody who likes to argue ridiculous points. The police in Ferguson Missouri answer to the executive branch of Missouri which is part of the government of Missouri and which answers to the government of the US. That after knowing all those facts that you still want to claim that they're not part of the government is laughable. Almost as laughable as saying that a person who hasn't been convicted of any crime is guilty of a crime.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

gdgyva said:
the AP and MSNBC earlier reported his friend admitted to the robbery

it now sounds as if the store owner is terrified....and maybe afraid of retribution from the neighborhood

so maybe he is changing his story?

dont know....but i guarantee the cops got his statement days ago, and that will be in the final reports
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Certainly possible, but think about it - even if he changes his story his business is screwed. Because this altercation took place in his store and because the video tape was released - even if everything goes back to normal tomorrow do you think this guys business will still be visited by ANYONE in that neighborhood or for that matter by anyone for miles and miles? That store is toast. Best thing that can happen is the looters come back and burn it to the ground - he gets the insurance money and moves far away and starts over.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
The police are under the executive branch of government. They are the government. Are you seriously going to argue that fact? What's next? Pepper spray is just a food condiment and someone telling you that they'll "shell you" if you don't move is a pick up line?
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Don't play at simple. These police are part of LOCAL government, not state or federal. When people, especially libertarians say "government", they are talking about the FEDERAL government.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
You really are somebody who likes to argue ridiculous points. The police in Ferguson Missouri answer to the executive branch of Missouri which is part of the government of Missouri and which answers to the government of the US. That after knowing all those facts that you still want to claim that they're not part of the government is laughable. Almost as laughable as saying that a person who hasn't been convicted of any crime is guilty of a crime.
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No, they don't. They answer to the Ferguson city council or the mayor of Ferguson. These are LOCAL police. They are not part of the state or federal government. They do not receive state or federal salaries or benefits.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
You really are somebody who likes to argue ridiculous points. The police in Ferguson Missouri answer to the executive branch of Missouri which is part of the government of Missouri and which answers to the government of the US. That after knowing all those facts that you still want to claim that they're not part of the government is laughable. Almost as laughable as saying that a person who hasn't been convicted of any crime is guilty of a crime.
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You may want to take a breath and back away from her for a bit. She has said nothing that is any different from what she has stood for on this board since she became a member.

She is for smaller federal government and having the states and local government be the ones that hold the power. A reasonable position that I also hold.

The police involved in this incident are sworn officers of the County and City, which are granted their power by State Law. The federal government has nothing to do with this, and therefore the Executive Branch - at either the Federal or State level - has nothing to do with it. In fact, it is the Legislative Branch of the State that grants them their power at the local level through legislating a State Law that does so.

You are wrong on so many levels that I suggest again, that you take a breath and back away from her a bit.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

clownboy said:
Don't play at simple. These police are part of LOCAL government, not state or federal. When people, especially libertarians say "government", they are talking about the FEDERAL government.
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Better tell leading Libertarian voices that:

BBC News - Is Ferguson the start of a 'libertarian moment'

There is, however, a growing chorus from the conservative movement's libertarian wing that connects the perceived overreaction by a militarised local law enforcement to their critique of the heavy-handed power of government.

"The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt you, whether it's the FDA, the state prosecutor or the local police force," writes Hot Air blog's Mary Katharine Ham, concisely summarising the gist of this libertarian argument.
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/19/ron-paul-local-police-not-supposed-warriors/

Former Texas Rep. Ron Paul said the Department of Defense program that transfers military equipment to local police should be disbanded and that local law enforcement officials are not “warriors.”

“It should be gotten rid of,” Mr. Paul said Monday on MSNBC of the Pentagon’s 1033 program. “Police are supposed to be local people and they’re supposed to be peace officers. They’re not supposed to be warriors.”
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They seem to be opposed to the militarization of police forces period. Don't let the facts get in your way once again. Remember, no other witnesses.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

grip said:
Do you think the occifer broke his own eye socket?
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I'm not saying anything about the officer. He doesn't appear in this video.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

clownboy said:
When people, especially libertarians say "government", they are talking about the FEDERAL government.
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No, they don't. Libertarians are individuals like anyone else, and have differing viewpoints on all levels of government and government programs, but when libertarians talk about government, they are not limited to discussions of federal government. There is a reason why state administered and funded social programs can find themselves under scrutiny by libertarians, and why the so-called militarization of state and local police forces has been a concern for libertarians. It's not strictly that some of these programs are federally-funded. They are persons in government authority.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

clownboy said:
No, they don't. They answer to the Ferguson city council or the mayor of Ferguson. These are LOCAL police. They are not part of the state or federal government. They do not receive state or federal salaries or benefits.
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You're proven wrong by 3 different links and you still want to argue this. GL.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...efame-shooting-victim-b-5.html#post1063659902

Beaudreaux said:
You may want to take a breath and back away from her for a bit. She has said nothing that is any different from what she has stood for on this board since she became a member.

She is for smaller federal government and having the states and local government be the ones that hold the power. A reasonable position that I also hold.

The police involved in this incident are sworn officers of the County and City, which are granted their power by State Law. The federal government has nothing to do with this, and therefore the Executive Branch - at either the Federal or State level - has nothing to do with it. In fact, it is the Legislative Branch of the State that grants them their power at the local level through legislating a State Law that does so.

You are wrong on so many levels that I suggest again, that you take a breath and back away from her a bit.
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Fiddytree said:
No, they don't. Libertarians are individuals like anyone else, and have differing viewpoints on all levels of government and government programs, but when libertarians talk about government, they are not limited to discussions of federal government. There is a reason why state administered and funded social programs can find themselves under scrutiny by libertarians, and why the so-called militarization of state and local police forces has been a concern for libertarians. It's not strictly that some of these programs are federally-funded. They are persons in government authority.
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He answered this better than I did. The local police fall under the government. Whether it's federal or state is irrelevant. State governments answer ultimately to the federal government as they are dependent on it for funding a myriad of programs. Now, that you support big oppressive government at the state level makes absolutely no difference to anyone really. You're just showing the massive hypocrisy of these so called Libertarians who've come out in support of police departments that beat down suspects, push the media and attack peaceful protesters under the guise of trying to stop rioters.
 
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Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

clownboy said:
Yeah, because everybody knows it's normal to choke a clerk every time you visit the market. Right?:lamo
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Well nobody is denying that Brown and the clerk exchange words. Also if you look at the video, the clerk is trying to stop Brown from leaving. This is why he grab him by the neck and push him aside.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

tres borrachos said:
The police aren't the "government". And there are no facts that anyone knows about the shooting other than a teenager is dead, and a policeman shot him.

Okay, then go ahead and admit that the kid whose "eyewitness" account is a liar, if you believe this blog to be true.
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You seem to think that his friend lied about Brown surrendering. Now, you believe this part.

I don't believe the blog to be necessarily true or false. It's interesting, if inconclusive evidence. You want to say it doesn't prove anything, fine. Then it doesn't prove anything - either way.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
You really are somebody who likes to argue ridiculous points. The police in Ferguson Missouri answer to the executive branch of Missouri which is part of the government of Missouri and which answers to the government of the US. That after knowing all those facts that you still want to claim that they're not part of the government is laughable. Almost as laughable as saying that a person who hasn't been convicted of any crime is guilty of a crime.
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No, almost as laughable as saying that someone is arrested and then let go is automatically innocent. Are you interested in comparing posts that were laughed at (hint - people in that thread said my correction was right).

Now, on to this. Tell me, what does a police officer in Ferguson MO have to do with Barack Obama, Congress, the Senate, spending, wars, SCOTUS, etc. Go on, please do tell. Because I can't think of anything.

You know as well as I do when a Libertarian says we need small government he/she sure as **** isn't talking about a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri.

Use your head.

By the way, define "answers to". Tell me exactly how Darrell Wilson answers to Barack Obama, and be specific in your response. Does Obama set his salary? Approve his vacation requests? Decide on his pension? Pick the color of his uniform? Tell him what his beat is that day? I'd like to know.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

rocket88 said:
You seem to think that his friend lied about Brown surrendering. Now, you believe this part.

I don't believe the blog to be necessarily true or false. It's interesting, if inconclusive evidence. You want to say it doesn't prove anything, fine. Then it doesn't prove anything - either way.
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Um, no, I was questioning his friend's credibility, and that was quite clear in my post.

If your blog is accurate, the friend lied when he said they robbed the store. If that's the case, then why would anyone believe the statements of a liar? If he did rob the store, and is truthful, then your bloggers are wrong, and this is a waste of space.

See how that works?
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

tres borrachos said:
Um, no, I was questioning his friend's credibility, and that was quite clear in my post.

If your blog is accurate, the friend lied when he said they robbed the store. If that's the case, then why would anyone believe the statements of a liar? If he did rob the store, and is truthful, then your bloggers are wrong, and this is a waste of space.

See how that works?
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So he lied about surrendering, but didn't lie about the robbery? Or did he lie about the robbery and not lie about surrendering? Or did he lie about both?

Critical thinking is your friend. Unfortunately, I see very little of it in this case.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

clownboy said:
Yeah, isn't it. Hope you were looking in a mirror when you said that.
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So you don't want to see evidence that goes against your point of view either.

Wow, you're sooooo superior.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Fiddytree said:
No, they don't. Libertarians are individuals like anyone else, and have differing viewpoints on all levels of government and government programs, but when libertarians talk about government, they are not limited to discussions of federal government. There is a reason why state administered and funded social programs can find themselves under scrutiny by libertarians, and why the so-called militarization of state and local police forces has been a concern for libertarians. It's not strictly that some of these programs are federally-funded. They are persons in government authority.
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I know many Libertarians, and I don't know any who rant about the size of police forces in cities they don't even live in. Do you?

I don't worry about the militarization of a police force in Missouri, but I do worry about the Federal government going to wars that are a waste, spending money indiscriminately, trying to come into my bedroom, and so on. I don't consider my police force in my town or my state to be "social programs".
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

rocket88 said:
So he lied about surrendering, but didn't lie about the robbery? Or did he lie about the robbery and not lie about surrendering? Or did he lie about both?

Critical thinking is your friend. Unfortunately, I see very little of it in this case.
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I have no idea what he lied about. Do you?

If he told the truth about robbing the store, then this blog is a joke. If he lied about robbing the store, the blog may be right - but that makes him a liar, doesn't it, and a liar's testimony is usually discounted as a lie.

See how easy that is?
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

rocket88 said:
I'm not saying anything about the officer. He doesn't appear in this video.
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Oh, you mean the video showing Brown attacking the clerk, and his friend putting the cigars Brown handed to him back on the counter?
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

tres borrachos said:
No, almost as laughable as saying that someone is arrested and then let go is automatically innocent.
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You still don't know how innocent until proven guilty works do you? Lol. Stop it.

Now, on to this. Tell me, what does a police officer in Ferguson MO have to do with Barack Obama, Congress, the Senate, spending, wars, SCOTUS, etc. Go on, please do tell. Because I can't think of anything.
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Who do you think funds the militarization of these small hick town police departments? The state? Lmao.

You know as well as I do when a Libertarian says we need small government he/she sure as **** isn't talking about a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri.
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Of course you're not talking about local police officers. That would imply actually being educated in where funding for these department comes from. Here's a clue:

Rand Paul Blames ‘Big Government’ for Militarized Police - Washington Wire - WSJ

But Mr. Paul brought to the argument the weight of his ambition to be a national political leader. He linked the issue to his broader critique of the federal government, saying that local police have become militarized in part because of federal aid to police departments to acquire heavy arms, something he said “is usually done in the name of fighting the war on drugs or terrorism.”
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“When you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process that allows the police to become judge and jury—national security letters, no-knock searches, broad general warrants, pre-conviction forfeiture—we begin to have a very serious problem on our hands,” Paul said.

Read more: Rand Paul, Ted Cruz weigh in on Ferguson - Burgess Everett - POLITICO.com
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Former Rep. Ron Paul on Monday called for the elimination of the Defense Department program that has transferred billions of dollars in surplus military equipment to local and state agencies.

Read more: Ron Paul: Local police not 'warriors' - Jonathan Topaz - POLITICO.com
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By the way, define "answers to".
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Easy, how much tax revenue does a broke suburb like Ferguson bring in that it can afford armored vehicles and state of the art riot gear for its police officers? Who do you think pays for all of that? Do you think it comes with no strings attached to big government? You're switching the topic though. It's good you stopped trying to claim that police department weren't part of the government. That was getting embarrassing. Hell, and you doubled down by saying people who weren't charged with anything weren't innocent. It just keeps getting worse with these outrageous claims from you.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
You still don't know how innocent until proven guilty works do you? Lol. Stop it.



Who do you think funds the militarization of these small hick town police departments? The state? Lmao.



Of course you're not talking about local police officers. That would imply actually being educated in where funding for these department comes from. Here's a clue:

Rand Paul Blames ‘Big Government’ for Militarized Police - Washington Wire - WSJ









Easy, how much tax revenue does a broke suburb like Ferguson bring in that it can afford armored vehicles and state of the art riot gear for its police officers? Who do you think pays for all of that? Do you think it comes with no strings attached to big government? You're switching the topic though. It's good you stopped trying to claim that police department weren't part of the government. That was getting embarrassing. Hell, and you doubled down by saying people who weren't charged with anything weren't innocent. It just keeps getting worse with these outrageous claims from you.
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You said when the police arrest someone but release him, it's because he was innocent. I proved you wrong, others agreed with me, and I'm not going to derail this thread rehashing your mistake.

You showed nothing to indicate that Wilson answered to Obama. No surprise. Just nonsense about armored vehicles. Did Wilson drive an armored car when he shot Brown, personally provided by Obama? Nope.

Stop flailing and stop posting nonsense. By the way, I am not Rand Paul, so I have no clue why you posted a link about Rand Paul. Can't you speak for yourself?
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

Hatuey said:
You're proven wrong by 3 different links and you still want to argue this. GL.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...efame-shooting-victim-b-5.html#post1063659902





He answered this better than I did. The local police fall under the government. Whether it's federal or state is irrelevant. State governments answer ultimately to the federal government as they are dependent on it for funding a myriad of programs. Now, that you support big oppressive government at the state level makes absolutely no difference to anyone really. You're just showing the massive hypocrisy of these so called Libertarians who've come out in support of police departments that beat down suspects, push the media and attack peaceful protesters under the guise of trying to stop rioters.
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Sorry, but... :lamo and continuing to say the same thing over and over to try and prove your ridiculous position is just :beatdeadhorse.
 
Re: Brown paid for cigars - Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Vict

grip said:
Oh, you mean the video showing Brown attacking the clerk, and his friend putting the cigars Brown handed to him back on the counter?
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I didn't see him attack the clerk in the video. Which part were you watching?
 
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