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Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
Do you have a link to your billions of examples? Face it you have no proof that it didn't happen I have no proof that it didn't happen. At least I admit what I do or do not have.
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Yes, I can give you those.. I'll give you a place to start. First, start reading the obituaries in the news paper.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

RAMOSS said:
Oh gosh, I will also say that anything that is proclaims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The allged miracles , such as 'walking on water' can be showen to be physically impossible,.. that's makes those stories debunked as historical events.
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Um, that's the very definition of a miracle.

Montecresto said:
Sorry to hit your nerve. As I told rogue already. It doesn't matter what you think of marriage, if you think a 50% fail rate is success, write it down and yell it from the halls, I really don't care. Gay marriage will probably have a similar and failing effect, but hey, they should have a chance at it too!
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I'm not sure what nerve you think you hit. Rougenuke and I are simply pointing out the failing logic of your argument. Let's put in a different view. When we look at whether something is failing or not we look at and for causes. If 50% of drivers are driving off of the road, and there is nothing wrong with the cars, then do we call cars failures? No. We look at the real cause and call either our drivers, or our driving training courses failures. Or maybe it's the roads that are the failing cause. So in this case, is it marriage (cars) that is the failure or is it the people (drivers) entering into marriage that is the problem? To simply point to the 50% divorce rate and call marriage a failure is use of the correlation/causation fallacy.

TobyOne said:
And just because we haven't seen space aliens doesn't mean they're "debunked".
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Kind of makes you wonder how long people were saying the heliocentric model of the solar system was debunked?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

RAMOSS said:
Yes, I can give you those.. I'll give you a place to start. First, start reading the obituaries in the news paper.
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I thought we were still talking about how long the Romans left people on the cross.

The people in the obituaries just havent resurected yet. ;-)
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
I thought we were still talking about how long the Romans left people on the cross.

The people in the obituaries just havent resurected yet. ;-)
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There is no evidence they will. As for the ones the Romans put on the cross, except for religious dogma,lets see you provide any evidence that a dead person came back to life. Stories with religious motivation is the claim, not the evidence.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

RAMOSS said:
There is no evidence they will. As for the ones the Romans put on the cross, except for religious dogma,lets see you provide any evidence that a dead person came back to life. Stories with religious motivation is the claim, not the evidence.
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I am not claiming Jesus was resurected. I believe He did and every one who dies will but that is my faith and opinion. I dont care to try to convince you since it is a matter of faith.

The only thing that will make me reconsider what I believe on faith is real evidence. So far I have done this with evolution, the global flood, and the Genesis account; but no one has shown actual evidence that the resurection didnt happen.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
I am not claiming Jesus was resurected. I believe He did and every one who dies will but that is my faith and opinion. I dont care to try to convince you since it is a matter of faith.

The only thing that will make me reconsider what I believe on faith is real evidence. So far I have done this with evolution, the global flood, and the Genesis account; but no one has shown actual evidence that the resurection didnt happen.
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The fact no one has ever seen anybody resurrected doesn't mean anything to you then. .. and when people die, they stay dead?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

RAMOSS said:
The fact no one has ever seen anybody resurrected doesn't mean anything to you then. .. and when people die, they stay dead?
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For the first part, no it doesnt mean anything to me. Lack of witness doesnt mean something didnt/doesnt happen.
For the second part, I believe only Jesus has been resurected so far.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
For the first part, no it doesnt mean anything to me. Lack of witness doesnt mean something didnt/doesnt happen.
For the second part, I believe only Jesus has been resurected so far.
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Which, are the two logical fallacies known as 'Argument from Ignorance', and 'Special Pleading' respectively.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

RAMOSS said:
Which, are the two logical fallacies known as 'Argument from Ignorance', and 'Special Pleading' respectively.
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Actually we are both committing an Argument from Ignorance except I am not trying to convince you of anything without proof and you are trying to convince me of something without proof.

"An appeal to ignorance is an argument for or against a proposition on the basis of a lack of evidence against or for it. If there is positive evidence for the conclusion, then of course we have other reasons for accepting it, but a lack of evidence by itself is no evidence." - Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ignorance

For the second, I am not saying no one else will not or cannot be resurected, I just am saying they havent been resurected yet.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Wouldn't be much of a religion if it was based on something that happened a lot. Religions become religions because of supernatural events or perceived supernatural events. Science, by definition, doesn't do well with this. However, science isn't an authority, its just a tool.


The trap that most atheists fall into is that their conclusion is their premise. Miracles don't happen because miracles can't happen. There's probably a fancy latin name for that. Its the same as believers saying the bible is the truth because the bible says so. Two opposite sides of the issue using the same fallacy.



RAMOSS said:
The fact no one has ever seen anybody resurrected doesn't mean anything to you then. .. and when people die, they stay dead?
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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TobyOne said:
And just because we haven't seen space aliens doesn't mean they're "debunked".
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No, it just means that there is no rational reason to believe they are real. Just like your imaginary friend.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
Could you please provide proof that in the hundreds of years that the Romans were in power they never once did anything that was different then tradition?
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You might want to read Bart Ehrman's latest book on the subject. Might stop you from looking ignorant.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Cephus said:
You might want to read Bart Ehrman's latest book on the subject. Might stop you from looking ignorant.
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Why, was he there?

I am not really concerned with how I look to you. If you cant see the difference between debunked and no proof of, then you opinion is suspect to me anyway.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
Why, was he there?

I am not really concerned with how I look to you. If you cant see the difference between debunked and no proof of, then you opinion is suspect to me anyway.
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You got caught up in an old argument of which you are unaware of the context. I am Jewish. Based on Judaism, the resurrection never occurred... so in context of my religion, the word "debunked" is accurate.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

CaptainCourtesy said:
You got caught up in an old argument of which you are unaware of the context. I am Jewish. Based on Judaism, the resurrection never occurred... so in context of my religion, the word "debunked" is accurate.
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Thank you for clarifying.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
For the first part, no it doesnt mean anything to me. Lack of witness doesnt mean something didnt/doesnt happen.
For the second part, I believe only Jesus has been resurected so far.
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So Lazarus is a pure fabrication?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TobyOne said:
Wouldn't be much of a religion if it was based on something that happened a lot. Religions become religions because of supernatural events or perceived supernatural events. Science, by definition, doesn't do well with this. However, science isn't an authority, its just a tool.


The trap that most atheists fall into is that their conclusion is their premise. Miracles don't happen because miracles can't happen. There's probably a fancy latin name for that. Its the same as believers saying the bible is the truth because the bible says so. Two opposite sides of the issue using the same fallacy.
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Well, then, when you show me an example, just 1 that can be verified with independent evidence that someone was resurrected, I will change my mind.

Science is not an authority. It is a methodology. It is using rational reasoning, testing ideas, and trying to prove an idea wrong. (falsibility).

And, you are doing the psychological technique known as 'projection' in your claim that atheists have their conclusion in their premise,.. when it comes to the resurrection in particular. Horrible claim there, and there is a strawman there.. since the claim 'there is no evidence out of all those claims that miracles happen that any miracle has been shown to be a miracle.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Amandi said:
Why, was he there?

I am not really concerned with how I look to you. If you cant see the difference between debunked and no proof of, then you opinion is suspect to me anyway.
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No and neither were you so stop being ridiculous and asking silly things.

What you're saying is as absurd as saying you can't prove that General Lee didn't ride into battle during the Civil War on a unicorn. After all, you weren't there. But we have no reason to think that unicorns are real and all the evidence we have says it didn't happen, therefore it has been effectively debunked. The same is true of the Jesus myth. It violates everything that we know about the Roman occupation and how they carried out crucifixions. Clearly the accounts in the Bible were written by people unfamiliar with the actual practices. We already know that they were not written by the people whose names are on them. The whole thing is a ridiculous fabrication.

And you fell for it. That makes your opinion pretty suspect.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

CaptainCourtesy said:
You got caught up in an old argument of which you are unaware of the context. I am Jewish. Based on Judaism, the resurrection never occurred... so in context of my religion, the word "debunked" is accurate.
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Just for clarification, it doesn't really matter what tradition and mythology say, only what actually happened in reality and according to all of the evidence we have, none of it ever occurred. What people believe about it is largely irrelevant.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

There's no projection. I'm atheist myself - or maybe agnostic depending on your definition. The catholic church even in modern times investigates and identifies miracles. Are they miracles? They can't be "debunked" either. Ultimately, as always, it comes down to faith.

.
RAMOSS said:
Well, then, when you show me an example, just 1 that can be verified with independent evidence that someone was resurrected, I will change my mind.

Science is not an authority. It is a methodology. It is using rational reasoning, testing ideas, and trying to prove an idea wrong. (falsibility).

And, you are doing the psychological technique known as 'projection' in your claim that atheists have their conclusion in their premise,.. when it comes to the resurrection in particular. Horrible claim there, and there is a strawman there.. since the claim 'there is no evidence out of all those claims that miracles happen that any miracle has been shown to be a miracle.
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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

No its not. You don't know what "debunked" is. A christian can not say the story of Mohammed is debunked just because they're christian. Words don't change meaning based on your identity or religion.

CaptainCourtesy said:
You got caught up in an old argument of which you are unaware of the context. I am Jewish. Based on Judaism, the resurrection never occurred... so in context of my religion, the word "debunked" is accurate.
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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TobyOne said:
No its not. You don't know what "debunked" is. A christian can not say the story of Mohammed is debunked just because they're christian. Words don't change meaning based on your identity or religion.
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You are not reading. You are dismissing what is said, and what you just wrote has nothing to do with the the points made. I see a lot of denial of evidence and hand waving of the points due to preconceived notions.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

maquiscat said:
So Lazarus is a pure fabrication?
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No, more like my thinking differently when I wrote that. Lazarus was raised from the dead and that might be resurection. When I wrote that I was thinking resurection that will be forever.
 
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