• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Thats because Monica was under the desk while Bill was defending marriage.


Do you think I approve of Obamacare? I have no idea what was going on with that.

Both Republicans and Democrats supported DOMA in 1994 in both houses of Congress (342 in the House, 85 in the Senate, votes for this bill). That was enough to get a Federal Marriage Amendment through both houses. Unlike Obamacare (which Obama supported, for whatever insane reason), Clinton did not really support DOMA, he simply knew that it would be pointless to stop it. He didn't even allow photos to be taken when he signed it.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

We'll let God sort that out.

Fine in the meantime you have no right to try and enforce your perverted ideas on others by trying to deny them SSM.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

We'll let God sort that out.

Lol. I highly doubt god is going to issue harsher judgment on, let's say, gay police, doctors, nurses, firefighters, soldiers, paramedics, peace corp volunteers

Than he is going to issue upon you - a man who spends countless hours spewing vitriolic hate at people who just want equality.

I'm pretty sure the ugliness that you display everyday on these forums will be taken into consideration by your god.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Lol. I highly doubt god is going to issue harsher judgment on, let's say, gay police, doctors, nurses, firefighters, soldiers, paramedics, peace corp volunteers

Than he is going to issue upon you - a man who spends countless hours spewing vitriolic hate at people who just want equality.

I'm pretty sure the ugliness that you display everyday on these forums will be taken into consideration by your god.

I want to like this about a thousand friggin times....
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

We'll let God sort that out.

Didn't I suggest that very thing to you like about a thousand posts ago.....

God makes gay people, god will deal with gay people, and therefore YOU don't have to worry about gay people or what they do.

You're time would be much more productively spent worrying about world hunger, poverty, education, healthcare, literacy..........
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

You're time would be much more productively spent worrying about world hunger, poverty, education, healthcare, literacy..........

Or what god thinks of him and his own conduct.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

What about DOMA? Clinton signed it.

DOMA didn't limit who could and couldn't get married. Even under DOMA states could allow same sex couples to marry. DOMA only stated that the Federal government would not recognize those marriages. A key difference.

I also know that saying it's unfair for people in SSM to not have legal rights in states that don't permit SSM, its nothing but a new avenue to attack the laws of that state. Bring in custody of children who might suddenly end up there is another.

I made that comment in regards to opposite sex marriages. If you claim that one state can opt to not recognize the SSM from another state, then likewise that same principle can be applied to OSM.

My question is why you would want to live in a state who's majority doesn't want you there?

Good job, little pollution, family who supports you near by,...there are all kinds of reasons. You could as well ask why would I live in a state where they tax everything including the amount of impermiable surfaces to the rain that I have (see MD's Rain Tax). Some places are worth working hard to change and to live in despite other issues. Why didn't all the mix race couples just move out of the states where the majority didn't want them?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

What does Jesus' words have to do with the debate over same sex marriage.

It addresses the argument that while Paul condemned gay sex relations (Romans 1:26-27) that Jesus did not. So my point was that Jesus (God) did address it.

Nearly every Christian marriage includes the phrase "What God has joined, let no man put asunder", yet not many Christians rally against divorce. It's accepted as a necessary civil proceeding. Same sex marriage should be viewed the same way. There is a distinct difference between what we should do as Christians and what we should do as a country. It's okay for them to be at odds. Maybe your church doesn't allow same sex marriage. I support that, Neither does mine. I can't (nor should anyone) support using that as reasoning not to allow equal treatment to others.

The problem is there are divine consequences: God's judgment on men and nations. So we can't just say that because it's legal, then we don't have to worry about anything else.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

In Romans he made heterosexual people start lusting for people of the same sex as a punishment, it doesnt say anything about people who are homosexual to start with. In I Corinthians some translators have made convincing arguments that it is referring to rape when you look at other places the actual Greek words were used.

Sorry, I don't see that. Besides, gay sex was already condemned in the Old Testament as well as the NT.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Sorry, I don't see that. Besides, gay sex was already condemned in the Old Testament as well as the NT.

I don't try to convince people. I just try to show people where our beliefs come from. And we also think the Old Testament versus are either mistranslated or taken out of context.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

But one poster up says it was the lesser of two evils. Evil being SSM.

Listen to yourself. Two people who love each other entering into a private legal contract is evil because the government uses the word marriage.

Evil.

If God doesn't see it as a marriage, what's the problem? Using the word? Evil is using a word God doesn't think they should use?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Then as said you did not mean "ban religions" but ban some religions, which is not want you stated because you said:



Because if they say join Islam they cannot possibly be banning religion because Islam is a religion. And that would make them not ban religions but only allow 1 religion and one is not the same as none thus they would not be banning religion at all.


They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.

Which doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the country has "banned religion", they haven't. They have placed a single religion so high in their country's operation and politics, that it harms anyone else who does not share those beliefs, whether atheists or those of other religions.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Are you referring to OT or both OT and NT?

No, just the OT. I'm Jewish, so I do not deal with the NT. I've posted this many times here, so I will again. Reposted with permission from my personal hero:

My argument, presented, is demonstrating why my religion, Judaism (and my sect, Reform Judaism) sees no issue with homosexuality or SSM.

First, here is my treatment on the two Leviticus passages:

Leviticus 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


There are so many errors in the interpretation of these passages. One has to understand the section of the Torah that they were taken, what the context was, and the translations of the actual words. These passages cannot stand by themselves and mean what they were supposed to mean.

The section of the Torah where these passages were taken refers to codes of holiness and purity. It describes ways that God wants the Hebrews to be different from the Pagans. The passages that surround these two include passages about bestiality and incest, other unclean/unholy acts that were performed by Pagans. Now, we must first look at the word "abomination". This is taken from the Hebrew word "to'ebah". The actual translation of this is NOT abomination, but ritually unclean, something that fits perfectly with the codes of that section of the Bible. So, we now have it not an abomination, but just something that is ritually unclean.

Next, since this passage is included in the codes of holiness section, it refers to acts that Pagans do, that God wants the Hebrews to separate from. One of these acts is engaging in anal sex with male prostitutes. Now, even if we look at the issue, globally, Hebrew translations refer to anal sex acts; no mention of homosexual orientation or homosexual relationships are mentioned. At all.

Now, moving on to the actual words. Since Hebrews believed that the Torah was spoken directly to Moses from God, one must wonder why the passage reads like this:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." If God was saying something against homosexuality in men, He would have just said this: ""Thou shalt not lie with mankind: it is abomination." Why the "as womankind" part? Think about it. A man should not lie with another man as if HE were a woman. Sexuality in the Torah is always presented as male dominant/female subservient. Hebrew scholars see this as meaning that if men have sexual relations, NEITHER shall be passive ("as womankind"). Also, since this was a norm of the time, this does not apply to today, anyway.

So, what can we conclude from the actual Hebrew interpretations and the context of what was being discussed? Firstly, the entire section refers to holiness codes, separating the Hebrews from the Pagans. Secondly, the word "abomination" is not accurate; ritually unclean IS accurate. This eliminates any punishment. Thirdly, only anal sex, probably in the context of male prostitutes is prohibited; homosexual orientation has no mention and has no such prohibitions. Fourthly, IF homosexual behavior does occur, neither man can be the passive (woman) in the relationship. Fifthly, this only applies to ancient Hebrews. Sixthly, lesbian relationships are not mentioned at all and, therefore have no prohibitions.

Now, there is MORE evidence that the prostitution theory holds water. Leviticus 18:3 says this: "After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances." God is saying that the Hebrews are NOT to behave like the Pagans (Canaanites and Egyptians). In both cultures, ritual gay sex with male prostitutes was common.

Now, my discussion of Sodom and Gommorah:

So everyone knows, Sodom and Gommorah was not about homosexuality at all. It was hospitality and protection. God punished those two cities because they were inhospitable, including towards his two angels that he sent. The "sodomy" that he was referring was NOT homosexuality, but was RAPE. The homosexuality misinterpretation comes from the fact that the angry mob wanted to rape (male homosexuality) the angels that visited Lot. This was a very common method of humiliation that was used at the time, especially amongst Pagans towards their enemies. During this time period, we had a patriarchal society, so, with the men in charge, humiliating and intimidating them was more effective. God's warning is that sodomy... RAPE, especially homosexual RAPE, is sinful... hence his destruction of those two cities where that practice occurred. The story says nothing about consentual homosexual behavior.

So, in conclusion, my religion sees nothing wrong with homosexuality based on the context of the passages, the cultures of the times, and the actual translations of the words. Based on these passages, there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits the gay sexual orientation, nor SSM.

referring posts:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/99998-homosexuality-sinful-and-unnatural-25.html
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/99998-homosexuality-sinful-and-unnatural-48.html#post1059558797
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

No, just the OT. I'm Jewish, so I do not deal with the NT. I've posted this many times here, so I will again. Reposted with permission from my personal hero:
I wonder if any of the haters I encountered while discussing Noah's flood will be so quick to jump on you for pointing out translational problems as they were with me in that thread.

I suspect their political motivations won't inspire them to so flame you here as I was there, however, since these translational problems support their political ideals. csbrown28, FreedomFromAll, RabidAplaca, I'm talking about you.

Cherry-picking indeed.
 
Last edited:
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I wonder if any of the haters I encountered while discussing Noah's flood will be so quick to jump on you for pointing out translational problems as they were with me in that thread.

I suspect their political motivations won't inspire them to so flame you here as I was there, however, since these translational problems support their political ideals.

Cherry-picking indeed.

I've been attacked repeatedly over "translational problems". My post originated in 2011 and I've reposted it about a dozen times. My guess that those who supported you will attack me. I'll go back and read your thread so I can point out their hypocrisy when they do.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I've been attacked repeatedly over "translational problems". My post originated in 2011 and I've reposted it about a dozen times. My guess that those who supported you will attack me. I'll go back and read your thread so I can point out their hypocrisy when they do.
I think the best thing I like about this site is that in order to keep my head above water on any issue I am forced to reserch and learn more about the topic. In my experience that is the deciding factor in any thread. Right or wrong, the person who is more willing to learn, correct themselves, and refine their reasoning is the person who wins.

All the rest are trolls.

And anyone who thinks discussions on abortion or gay marriage are volatile clearly has never discussed how to construct a space elevator or other science project. So many egos and all that pent-up agression, jeesh!
 
Last edited:
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I think the best thing I like about this site is that in order to keep my head above water on any issue I am forced to reserch and learn more about the topic. In my experience that is the deciding factor in any thread. Right or wrong, the person who is more willing to learn, correct themselves, and refine their reasoning is the person who wins.

All the rest are trolls.

And anyone who thinks discussions on abortion or gay marriage are volatile clearly has never discussed how to construct a space elevator or other science project. So many egos and all that pent-up agression, jeesh!

Also, one must be willing to learn how to argue logically. The lack of logic in some arguments is so stark, I wonder why the individual doesn't see it themselves.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.

Yes, some muslims are monsters but even then, Islam is a religion so a country that is Islamic can never be a country that has no religion.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

No, just the OT. I'm Jewish, so I do not deal with the NT. I've posted this many times here, so I will again. Reposted with permission from my personal hero:



Just out of curiosity CC how would the orthodox jew view this interpretation? And what makes one a reformed jew as opposed to orthodox? Thx
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Also, one must be willing to learn how to argue logically. The lack of logic in some arguments is so stark, I wonder why the individual doesn't see it themselves.

You cannot reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Also, one must be willing to learn how to argue logically. The lack of logic in some arguments is so stark, I wonder why the individual doesn't see it themselves.

I try to always remain objective as I can possibly be while discussing a topic, including those that hit home. It comes down to empathy, walking a mile in someone else's shoes. When we are talking about homosexuality we are talking about me and those like me. Any harsh criticism or hate directed at homosexuality is also directed at me. Being labeled a defect, sickness, disease, crime, deviance or whatever it will chip away at your patience. When silly warped logic is used to rationalize idiotic & biased conclusions it's all the more exasperating. Then when confronted with evidence it's never enough no matter what.


It's easy to remain indifferent about a topic that has no true relevance to you.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Fine in the meantime you have no right to try and enforce your perverted ideas on others by trying to deny them SSM.

Pot meet kettle.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Lol. I highly doubt god is going to issue harsher judgment on, let's say, gay police, doctors, nurses, firefighters, soldiers, paramedics, peace corp volunteers

Than he is going to issue upon you - a man who spends countless hours spewing vitriolic hate at people who just want equality.

I'm pretty sure the ugliness that you display everyday on these forums will be taken into consideration by your god.

People in Hell want ice water...oh wait! 8)
 
Back
Top Bottom