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Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Oh like we're making some sort of deal or something.

Don't count your chickens...

Why? The Youth of America and I mean everyone under 40 overwhelmingly supports gay marriage. Even in places like Utah. You could win every judicial battle and you're still doomed. The literal march of gay marriage supporters will overwhelm those opposed.

It is not a rational reason to be legally opposed to something because you find it to be icky.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

My religion does not, so I reject your definition of sin as subjective.


You mean your church has decided to be culturally sensitive and overlook some of it's tenets.

So I reject their stance and your support of it.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Why? The Youth of America and I mean everyone under 40 overwhelmingly supports gay marriage. Even in places like Utah. You could win every judicial battle and you're still doomed. The literal march of gay marriage supporters will overwhelm those opposed.

It is not a rational reason to be legally opposed to something because you find it to be icky.

Texas voters overwhelmingly voted that marriage should only be between one man and one woman. Of course that was in 2006. We'd be willing to put it to a vote again if it's allowed to stick.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

You mean your church has decided to be culturally sensitive and overlook some of it's tenets.

So I reject their stance and your support of it.

So,....you're most closely connected to these people:

westboro-baptist-church-protest-playoffs-god-hates-nba-566x376.jpg


than these:

Presbyterians vote to allow gay marriage | Religion News Service

(RNS) The Presbyterian Church (USA) voted Thursday (June 19) to allow gay and lesbian weddings within the church, making it among the largest Christian denominations to take an embracing step toward same-sex marriage.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I see we are now in fantasy land. Race is a different issue than sex. The attack on the Constitution continues. It will eventually be allowed in all states, but that doesn't mean that the federal government has ever been granted any power by the Constitution to force states to do it.

I don't believe in it, but if a state okay's it, so be it. If a federal judge subverts the will of the people in a state, and forces it on them, I've got a problem with that. Everyone should have a problem with that. But I know the left, and it's quite alright, if they get there way, the Constitution be damned.

Race was being used to limit a legal institution where race has no impact on the ability of the people to perform the required legal expectations of them within that institution/contract. Because race has nothing to do with a person's ability to be a legal spouse, race based restrictions on marriage were struck down. Sex is being used to limit a legal institution where sex has no impact on the ability of the people to perform the required legal expectations of them within that institution/contract. Because sex has nothing to do with a person's ability to be a legal spouse, sex based restrictions on marriage need to be struck down. It is that simple. And it is completely within the Constitution. In fact, this is exactly the type of thing the Constitution is meant for, to strike down laws that either the federal or state government make that have absolutely no legal or rational basis, but are just there because some people feel something is "wrong" or "icky" or "not normal".
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I'm closely aligned with the word of God not any particular church.
You can make me out to be whatever you want, it won't change the truth.

Combined with your previous post below...I'll just take that as a "yes".

My faith requires me to rebuke sin where I see it.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Texas voters overwhelmingly voted that marriage should only be between one man and one woman. Of course that was in 2006. We'd be willing to put it to a vote again if it's allowed to stick.

Would you be willing to put it to a vote every 2-4 years? We know what the polls show on this matter. From the numbers we have, from polling, we know that the change is happening with time. So if you took a vote every 2-4 years mandatory within all these states that have these bans, it would be obvious that the change was coming, even if it didn't happen for several votes because older people (more likely to oppose same sex marriage) die off, and younger people (more likely to support same sex marriage) become old enough to vote. In fact, such a policy would most likely cause it to change faster because those who oppose same sex marriage would almost certainly get tired of having to vote for something that they could see through results was turning against them.

This is why though we use the Courts, as we should, to protect rights, especially when the writing is on the wall, rather than leaving it to voters. People shouldn't have to wait until the majority decides to give them equal protection of the laws by vote.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

You mean your church has decided to be culturally sensitive and overlook some of it's tenets.

So I reject their stance and your support of it.

My beliefs are not against homosexuality or same sex marriage, nor are they seen as sins. You don't get to tell others what their beliefs should be, nor do you get to dismiss their beliefs as "unimportant", as you seem to be doing here, at least when it comes to a legal matter. They are irrelevant in this matter, but so too are yours. But your beliefs also are not held at some higher place or level or status within our society just because you believe them. Even having a majority believe some of the same things you do (no single religious denomination holds a majority in this country, and Christians are so diverse in their beliefs, particularly beliefs that have some sort of affect on specific political issues, that you can't count Christians as a whole in this number), does not give those beliefs superiority over any other beliefs. It merely means a lot of people believe certain things.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

My beliefs are not against homosexuality or same sex marriage, nor are they seen as sins. You don't get to tell others what their beliefs should be, nor do you get to dismiss their beliefs as "unimportant", as you seem to be doing here, at least when it comes to a legal matter. They are irrelevant in this matter, but so too are yours. But your beliefs also are not held at some higher place or level or status within our society just because you believe them. Even having a majority believe some of the same things you do (no single religious denomination holds a majority in this country, and Christians are so diverse in their beliefs, particularly beliefs that have some sort of affect on specific political issues, that you can't count Christians as a whole in this number), does not give those beliefs superiority over any other beliefs. It merely means a lot of people believe certain things.
I stand by what I said.

It's not superiority, it's simply right and wrong.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

It goes against human instinct to mate with the same sex.

I think this is a good point that is overlooked, mostly because of PC reasons and that the gay marriage crowd doesn't want to face it. People mate to procreate, and to keep the species going.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I stand by what I said.

It's not superiority, it's simply right and wrong.

No. It's subjective opinion on right and wrong. Your beliefs that you consider superior to other beliefs that do not think homosexuality is a sin.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Sources?

There are also public health concerns (disease) and genetic concerns.

Use your head. Consent isn't an issue with animals. They don't have to consent to you owning them or slaughtering them or mutilating them or eating them or doing anything to them. Consent was never the reason why bestiality is illegal. The fact that it's disgusting and unnatural has always been the reason why it's illegal.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Use your head. Consent isn't an issue with animals. They don't have to consent to you owning them or slaughtering them or mutilating them or eating them or doing anything to them. Consent was never the reason why bestiality is illegal. The fact that it's disgusting and unnatural has always been the reason why it's illegal.

No it hasn't, it has been viewed as animal abuse. It is also illegal to torture an animal to death even if your plans are to slaughter it. You are simply wrong in this case.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

No it hasn't, it has been viewed as animal abuse. It is also illegal to torture an animal to death even if your plans are to slaughter it. You are simply wrong in this case.

I know someone who claims she works as "mouse police" (this isn't her real job title, but I think it is kinda cute). Her job is to actually ensure that mice used for research that is knowingly very likely to kill them (they are bred just for this type of research) are treated humanely and that rules that we have set forth for how these mice can and should be treated are explicitly followed by the researchers.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

At minimum the COTUS does grant the Federal government the power to force each state to recognize the legitimacy of marriages from other states under I believe the Commerce Clause. So if we actually followed the COTUS, gay marriage should have been legal nationwide with the first state to do it. We were actually violating the COTUS when we allowed states to ignore other states' gay marriages.


Not quite.


You are referring to the "Full Faith and Credit Clause" (Article IV Section 1) which states: "Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof."


Notice the second sentence. It states that, pertaining to public acts, that Congress has to the power to define the effects of those acts between states. Congress did that with the passage of the Federal DOMA in 1996. Section 3 of DOMA was ruled unconstitutional (federal denying recognition of legal Civil Marriages entered into under state law), however Section 2 was not challenged and remains intact. Section 2 provided that no state is required to recognize Civil Marriages from other states based on the gender composition of the couple if they choose not to.


Now, whether Section 2 is constitutional or not - that challenge has yet to be placed before the SCOTUS.



>>>>
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

No it hasn't, it has been viewed as animal abuse. It is also illegal to torture an animal to death even if your plans are to slaughter it. You are simply wrong in this case.

Animal abuse wasn't an issue until modern times. Bestiality laws didn't arise from some legal conscience about animal rights. It's a far, far stretch to assert that a horse getting a blowjob is being tortured. But it's plenty illegal. Why? Because it's disgusting and unnatural.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Oh like we're making some sort of deal or something.

Don't count your chickens...
Nope no deals....that ship has sailed. Your side only wants civil unions now that marriage equality is becoming a reality. Sorry dude....but this war is over. Marriage equality is now widely accepted by the vast majority of the country and will soon be the law of the land protected by the Constitution. You are just going to have to learn to live with it. Sorry for you. The chicks have already hatched.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Animal abuse wasn't an issue until modern times. Bestiality laws didn't arise from some legal conscience about animal rights.

Wrong even in the bible talked about animals and about Man tending to animals and not torturing them.

Proverbs 12:10
Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.


Ecclesiastes 3:19
For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.


Proverbs 27:23
Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

Exodus 23:5 If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him.

Psalm 145:9
The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Isaiah 1:11
“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.

Genesis 1:30
And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Luke 12:6
Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God.

Deuteronomy 25:4
“You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain.

Luke 15:4-7
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

Corinthians 15:39
For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

Genesis 9:1-6
And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.

Proverbs 31:8 ES
Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute.

Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”

Psalm 36:6
Your righteousness is like the mountains of God; your judgments are like the great deep; man and beast you save, O Lord.

Exodus 23:11
But the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the beasts of the field may eat. You shall do likewise with your vineyard, and with your olive orchard.

Genesis 49:5-7
“Simeon and Levi are brothers; weapons of violence are their swords. Let my soul come not into their council; O my glory, be not joined to their company. For in their anger they killed men, and in their willfulness they hamstrung oxen. Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce, and their wrath, for it is cruel! I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel.

Genesis 2:19
Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

Genesis 9:2
The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Isaiah 34:14-16
And wild animals shall meet with hyenas; the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; indeed, there the night bird settles and finds for herself a resting place. There the owl nests and lays and hatches and gathers her young in her shadow; indeed, there the hawks are gathered, each one with her mate. Seek and read from the book of the Lord: Not one of these shall be missing; none shall be without her mate. For the mouth of the Lord has commanded, and his Spirit has gathered them.

Genesis 33:13-14
But Jacob said to him, “My lord knows that the children are frail, and that the nursing flocks and herds are a care to me. If they are driven hard for one day, all the flocks will die. Let my lord pass on ahead of his servant, and I will lead on slowly, at the pace of the livestock that are ahead of me and at the pace of the children, until I come to my lord in Seir.”

John 1:1-51
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


What Does the Bible Say About Animal Cruelty?
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Animal abuse wasn't an issue until modern times. Bestiality laws didn't arise from some legal conscience about animal rights. It's a far, far stretch to assert that a horse getting a blowjob is being tortured. But it's plenty illegal. Why? Because it's disgusting and unnatural.

Not all places have the same bestiality laws or any bestiality laws though. They simply saw bestiality as wrong, which is where many laws came from. However, we are not talking about where they came from, but why they are still in effect. There are plenty of valid reasons to give for why they are and should remain in effect today that have nothing to do with "it's icky".
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Not all places have the same bestiality laws or any bestiality laws though. They simply saw bestiality as wrong, which is where many laws came from. However, we are not talking about where they came from, but why they are still in effect. There are plenty of valid reasons to give for why they are and should remain in effect today that have nothing to do with "it's icky".

You can always think up some sort of alternative "reasoning" for bestiality laws that doesn't have anything to do with "it's icky", but I think we both know the real reason for these laws is because bestiality is disgusting and unnatural. Feel free to deny that if it suits your agenda, though.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Wrong even in the bible talked about animals and about Man tending to animals and not torturing them.

Are you suddenly trying to assert that the Bible is the last word on our laws?

Look, cockfighting wasn't illegal in all 50 states until very recently and you can still hook up a mule to a plow and work it's ass off all day long if you want. Animal rights is a recent liberal invention that's still not thoroughly entrenched in our legal system and, like I said, it's not a prohibition against animal cruelty that makes it illegal to give a horse a blowjob. Bestiality is not illegal because animals can't "consent". It's illegal because it's a filthy perversion.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Hmmmmmm there are 100 vets in my Fleet Reserve Lodge that might disagree with you my left wing friend.

I, for one, couldn't care less. Your vote and opinion counts the same as mine, regardless of your status as a veteran.

Stop acting like you're More Important because you served. It's unbecoming.
 
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