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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    So be it.
    WTF?


    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    From what I hear monogamy it's that popular in SSM either..
    I have seen reports that suggest the divorce rate among SSM is 1/2 that of Christians. Frankly I believe it.

    .
    We took our vows before God and breaking those is one of the more hurtful things in one's life.
    So do many gay people. So what.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
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    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I am a denier of what? Are seriously going to quote a right wing whack job site like American Stinker? Hilarious.

    You quote American Stinker as a credible source? Seriously?

    Let's try something unbiased instead.

    Little-Known U.S. Document Proclaims America's Government is Secular - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
    Oh yeah, that's seems official.

    Freemasonry is an organization that doesn't give up it's secrets. My maternal grandfather was a 32 degree Mason and wouldn't tell me squat. He also went to church.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    SSM was against his Biblical beliefs, that should have been reason enough to say no. The homosexual couple(s) should have respected that and gone elsewhere but, they refused and made a fuss.
    And if was an interracial couple would you be OK with that?
    What about if it was a bar mitzvah?
    Wiccan celebration?
    Muslim wedding?
    Midget wedding?

    If you are ok with all that then you have no problem with segregationist policies.
    Perhaps we should have no-homosexual restaurants, busses, airplanes, ferries.
    Do you think someone should be able to refuse to hire someone because they are black or hispanic or homosexual or bisexual? What if the person in question is white, heterosexual but a Mormon or atheist? How would you even know? Could you fire them if you only found out later on?

    What if you agree to provide a service such as a wedding cake and sign a contract, then 2 days before the wedding find out it is for a SS couple, can you void the contract based on your religious apprehensions?
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The SCOTUS shouldn't be ruling on law based on a "moral conscience". They should be ruling on the law BASED ON THE LAW.
    I agree. That's the main problem with the idea of "substantive due process." It involves judges in overturning laws that majorities--sometimes very large ones--saw fit to make, just because those judges happened to believe that what a law did was wrong. That necessarily places any substantive due process decision on shaky ground, because it elevates the moral views of a handful of judges over the moral views of millions of voters. Some people think that is deeply undemocratic and makes these decisions nothing but arbitrary fiat--" because we say so."

    Roe v. Wade was a substantive due process decision. The Supreme Court, keenly aware of that, has tried very hard to avoid that phrase in its "gay" decisions. If it ever gins up a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, as it did with abortion, it will use a somewhat different rationale.

    Most likely, this rationale would be that a state marriage law which excluded same-sex partners was motivated by what the Court calls "animus." That means the only reason for passing it was bare hostility toward homosexuals as a group. But disadvantaging a particular group of people out of nothing more than a desire to harm them can never be a legitimate interest of government. And any law that is not at least rationally related to achieving a legitimate government interest violates due process, equal protection, or both.

    The 14th, created via a constitutional process, established equal protection under the law.
    And yet laws often subject similarly situated people to wildly disparate treatment without violating the Equal Protection Clause. When it comes to state economic regulations, that is more the rule than the exception. How the guarantee of equal protection applies, how it applies to various groups, and in what context, is a complex area of constitutional law.

    Currently, I believe there to be a clear unequal application of what can be done under the law as it pertains to gender. Thus far I've never had anyone give me an answer that sufficiently convinces me this unequal application substantially relates to serving an important state interest. As such, in my opinion, our current laws are unconstitutional.
    From your use of the language of the "intermediate" standard of review the Court has used in sex discrimination cases, it sounds like you would apply that standard to marriage laws that exclude same-sex couples. The main problem I see with that approach is that these laws don't discriminate against anyone on the basis of sex. They no more allow two men to marry each other than they allow two women to marry each other.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Oh yeah, that's seems official.
    I agree.

    Bibliography.

    Borden, Morton, "Jews, Turks, and Infidels," The University of North Carolina Press, 1984

    Boston, Robert, "Why the Religious Right is Wrong About Separation of Church & State, "Prometheus Books, 1993

    Boston, F. Andrews, et al, "The Writings of George Washington," (12 Vols.), Charleston, S.C., 1833-37

    Fitzpatrick, John C., ed., "The Diaries of George Washington, 1748-1799," Houghton Mifflin Company: Published for the Mount Vernon Ladies Association of the Union, 1925

    Gay, Kathlyn, "Church and State,"The Millbrook Press," 1992

    Handy, Robert, T., "A History of the Churches in U.S. and Canada," New York: Oxford University Press, 1977

    Hayes, Judith, "All those Christian Presidents," [The American Rationalist, March/April 1997]

    Kock, Adrienne, ed., "The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society," New York: George Braziller, 1965

    Mapp, Jr, Alf J., "Thomas Jefferson," Madison Books, 1987

    Middlekauff, Robert, "The Glorious Cause," Oxford University Press, 1982

    Miller, Hunter, ed., "Treaties and other International Acts of the United States of America," Vol. 2, Documents 1-40: 1776-1818, United States Government Printing Office, Washington: 1931

    Peterson, Merrill D., "Thomas Jefferson Writings," The Library of America, 1984

    Remsburg, John E., "Six Historic Americans," The Truth Seeker Company, New York

    Robinson, John J., "Born in Blood," M. Evans & Company, New York, 1989

    Roche, O.I.A., ed, "The Jefferson Bible: with the Annotated Commentaries on Religion of Thomas Jefferson," Clarkson N. Potter, Inc., 1964

    Seldes, George, ed., "The Great Quotations," Pocket Books, New York, 1967

    Sweet, William W., "Revivalism in America, its origin, growth and decline," C. Scribner's Sons, New York, 1944

    Woodress, James, "A Yankee's Odyssey, the Life of Joel Barlow," J. P. Lippincott Co., 1958

    Encyclopedia sources:

    Common law: Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 6, "William Benton, Publisher, 1969

    Declaration of Independence: MicroSoft Encarta 1996 Encyclopedia, MicroSoft Corp., Funk & Wagnalls Corporation.

    In God We Trust: MicroSoft Encarta 1996 Encyclopedia, MicroSoft Corp., Funk & Wagnalls Corporation.

    Pledge of Allegiance: Academic American Encyclopedia, Vol. 15, Grolier Incorporated, Danbury, Conn., 1988

    Special thanks to Ed Buckner, Robert Boston, Selena Brewington and Lion G. Miles, for help in providing me with source materials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Doesn't seem right that they couldn't respect his beliefs. That's the problem with the Homosexual lobby and the Left in general...they don't respect anyone's beliefs but their own.
    Do you respect my atheist beliefs, and my right to be an atheist and not follow Christian law? If your answer to that is yes, do you see how pushing for a greater theocratic rule based on Christian dogma would infringe on my beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    FWIW I don't think being a homosexual or SSM is a belief. More like a condition.
    Well, technically gay people might actually agree with that...kind of.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing a law against adultery.
    Adultery. Okay. Anything else?

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    SSM was against his Biblical beliefs, that should have been reason enough to say no. The homosexual couple(s) should have respected that and gone elsewhere but, they refused and made a fuss.

    Didn't you recently say you were going to give up on this topic and just let "god sort it all out"?

    Are you a liar as well as a sinner?

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    WTF?




    I have seen reports that suggest the divorce rate among SSM is 1/2 that of Christians. Frankly I believe it.

    .

    So do many gay people. So what.
    We're talking monogamy not divorce.

    How Do Gays Crack the Monogamy Code?*|*Tyler Curry
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    We're talking monogamy not divorce.

    How Do Gays Crack the Monogamy Code?*|*Tyler Curry
    What do you care? It's none of your business. You just want it to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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