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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    But one poster up says it was the lesser of two evils. Evil being SSM.
    Listen to yourself. Two people who love each other entering into a private legal contract is evil because the government uses the word marriage.

    Evil.

    If God doesn't see it as a marriage, what's the problem? Using the word? Evil is using a word God doesn't think they should use?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Then as said you did not mean "ban religions" but ban some religions, which is not want you stated because you said:



    Because if they say join Islam they cannot possibly be banning religion because Islam is a religion. And that would make them not ban religions but only allow 1 religion and one is not the same as none thus they would not be banning religion at all.

    They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.
    Which doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the country has "banned religion", they haven't. They have placed a single religion so high in their country's operation and politics, that it harms anyone else who does not share those beliefs, whether atheists or those of other religions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo allstar View Post
    Are you referring to OT or both OT and NT?
    No, just the OT. I'm Jewish, so I do not deal with the NT. I've posted this many times here, so I will again. Reposted with permission from my personal hero:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    My argument, presented, is demonstrating why my religion, Judaism (and my sect, Reform Judaism) sees no issue with homosexuality or SSM.

    First, here is my treatment on the two Leviticus passages:

    Leviticus 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
    Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


    There are so many errors in the interpretation of these passages. One has to understand the section of the Torah that they were taken, what the context was, and the translations of the actual words. These passages cannot stand by themselves and mean what they were supposed to mean.

    The section of the Torah where these passages were taken refers to codes of holiness and purity. It describes ways that God wants the Hebrews to be different from the Pagans. The passages that surround these two include passages about bestiality and incest, other unclean/unholy acts that were performed by Pagans. Now, we must first look at the word "abomination". This is taken from the Hebrew word "to'ebah". The actual translation of this is NOT abomination, but ritually unclean, something that fits perfectly with the codes of that section of the Bible. So, we now have it not an abomination, but just something that is ritually unclean.

    Next, since this passage is included in the codes of holiness section, it refers to acts that Pagans do, that God wants the Hebrews to separate from. One of these acts is engaging in anal sex with male prostitutes. Now, even if we look at the issue, globally, Hebrew translations refer to anal sex acts; no mention of homosexual orientation or homosexual relationships are mentioned. At all.

    Now, moving on to the actual words. Since Hebrews believed that the Torah was spoken directly to Moses from God, one must wonder why the passage reads like this:
    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." If God was saying something against homosexuality in men, He would have just said this: ""Thou shalt not lie with mankind: it is abomination." Why the "as womankind" part? Think about it. A man should not lie with another man as if HE were a woman. Sexuality in the Torah is always presented as male dominant/female subservient. Hebrew scholars see this as meaning that if men have sexual relations, NEITHER shall be passive ("as womankind"). Also, since this was a norm of the time, this does not apply to today, anyway.

    So, what can we conclude from the actual Hebrew interpretations and the context of what was being discussed? Firstly, the entire section refers to holiness codes, separating the Hebrews from the Pagans. Secondly, the word "abomination" is not accurate; ritually unclean IS accurate. This eliminates any punishment. Thirdly, only anal sex, probably in the context of male prostitutes is prohibited; homosexual orientation has no mention and has no such prohibitions. Fourthly, IF homosexual behavior does occur, neither man can be the passive (woman) in the relationship. Fifthly, this only applies to ancient Hebrews. Sixthly, lesbian relationships are not mentioned at all and, therefore have no prohibitions.

    Now, there is MORE evidence that the prostitution theory holds water. Leviticus 18:3 says this: "After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances." God is saying that the Hebrews are NOT to behave like the Pagans (Canaanites and Egyptians). In both cultures, ritual gay sex with male prostitutes was common.

    Now, my discussion of Sodom and Gommorah:

    So everyone knows, Sodom and Gommorah was not about homosexuality at all. It was hospitality and protection. God punished those two cities because they were inhospitable, including towards his two angels that he sent. The "sodomy" that he was referring was NOT homosexuality, but was RAPE. The homosexuality misinterpretation comes from the fact that the angry mob wanted to rape (male homosexuality) the angels that visited Lot. This was a very common method of humiliation that was used at the time, especially amongst Pagans towards their enemies. During this time period, we had a patriarchal society, so, with the men in charge, humiliating and intimidating them was more effective. God's warning is that sodomy... RAPE, especially homosexual RAPE, is sinful... hence his destruction of those two cities where that practice occurred. The story says nothing about consentual homosexual behavior.

    So, in conclusion, my religion sees nothing wrong with homosexuality based on the context of the passages, the cultures of the times, and the actual translations of the words. Based on these passages, there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits the gay sexual orientation, nor SSM.

    referring posts:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...atural-25.html
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059558797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, just the OT. I'm Jewish, so I do not deal with the NT. I've posted this many times here, so I will again. Reposted with permission from my personal hero:
    I wonder if any of the haters I encountered while discussing Noah's flood will be so quick to jump on you for pointing out translational problems as they were with me in that thread.

    I suspect their political motivations won't inspire them to so flame you here as I was there, however, since these translational problems support their political ideals. csbrown28, FreedomFromAll, RabidAplaca, I'm talking about you.

    Cherry-picking indeed.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-23-14 at 05:02 AM.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I wonder if any of the haters I encountered while discussing Noah's flood will be so quick to jump on you for pointing out translational problems as they were with me in that thread.

    I suspect their political motivations won't inspire them to so flame you here as I was there, however, since these translational problems support their political ideals.

    Cherry-picking indeed.
    I've been attacked repeatedly over "translational problems". My post originated in 2011 and I've reposted it about a dozen times. My guess that those who supported you will attack me. I'll go back and read your thread so I can point out their hypocrisy when they do.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I've been attacked repeatedly over "translational problems". My post originated in 2011 and I've reposted it about a dozen times. My guess that those who supported you will attack me. I'll go back and read your thread so I can point out their hypocrisy when they do.
    I think the best thing I like about this site is that in order to keep my head above water on any issue I am forced to reserch and learn more about the topic. In my experience that is the deciding factor in any thread. Right or wrong, the person who is more willing to learn, correct themselves, and refine their reasoning is the person who wins.

    All the rest are trolls.

    And anyone who thinks discussions on abortion or gay marriage are volatile clearly has never discussed how to construct a space elevator or other science project. So many egos and all that pent-up agression, jeesh!
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-23-14 at 05:10 AM.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think the best thing I like about this site is that in order to keep my head above water on any issue I am forced to reserch and learn more about the topic. In my experience that is the deciding factor in any thread. Right or wrong, the person who is more willing to learn, correct themselves, and refine their reasoning is the person who wins.

    All the rest are trolls.

    And anyone who thinks discussions on abortion or gay marriage are volatile clearly has never discussed how to construct a space elevator or other science project. So many egos and all that pent-up agression, jeesh!
    Also, one must be willing to learn how to argue logically. The lack of logic in some arguments is so stark, I wonder why the individual doesn't see it themselves.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    They kill Christians and Jews if they won't convert to Islam..........They behead women and children as well.
    Yes, some muslims are monsters but even then, Islam is a religion so a country that is Islamic can never be a country that has no religion.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I want to like this about a thousand friggin times....
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



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