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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

  1. #531
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes. That's why we have lots of laws like "you can't take your clothes and make someone's eyes bleed" and "you can't have wild monkey sex with a real wild monkey". It's disgusting. Lots of people don't want you doing that shyte in their neighborhood. Or state. Or country.
    In your opinion. The majority of folks in this country do not believe it is disgusting. That means that your opinion will eventually get trumped.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  2. #532
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Nowhere did I post that marriage is only for children, as I said. Twisting the facts, misleading, and out right lies. I'm all too familiar with the left's tactics.
    Ah, labeling, a sign that a poster doesn't have an argument. You strongly argued that the notion of children is central to marriage. Do you believe that or do you not? I cited three of your posts suggesting you do.

    Now tell me, what is your view on people who will not or cannot have children? Since you have three times argued that children are central to marriage, should people who are unwilling or infertile still be allowed to get married?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Here is the McClatchy-Marist Poll from just a few days ago (8/14).

    WASHINGTON: Sea change: Americans revising opinions on gays, poll finds | Washington | McClatchy DC

    54% support SSM in this poll... again, the percentage has been rising consistently over the past 10 years. One thing of note is that those 60 and older are the one age group that doesn't support SSM... so when they die off...

    Another very interesting poll.
    Push that debauchery, CC. All it shows is what percentage of Americans are Biblically-challenged heathens.

    Regular people don't need to know how other folks perform sex acts.
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Regular people don't need to know how other folks perform sex acts.
    "Regular" people don't care what two consenting adults do regarding sex, marriage, or relationship status.

    It's only the pompously religious that seem to care. They're the ones who want to force their beliefs on others.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    The rhetorical and logical hoops through which SSM opponents will happily hurl themselves through in order to justify their abject bigotry are laughable.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Push that debauchery, CC. All it shows is what percentage of Americans are Biblically-challenged heathens.

    Regular people don't need to know how other folks perform sex acts.
    I, for one, could not care less about your imaginary friend or his book.

    I have not read a single anti-SSM argument that isn't riddled with logical fallacies.
    Last edited by Kobie; 08-21-14 at 07:32 AM.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    To address your post matchlight.

    First of all, the argument when it comes to equal protection will always come from the state's reasoning behind the restriction in the law related to a state interest of some kind, whether it comes from the state or the other side. When it comes to same sex restrictions on marriage, the "reasons" so far have been "procreation", "voters want it", and "tradition", basically. Procreation would be the strongest argument of all of these if it could either be shown that a) some state actually restricted marriage due to a couple not being able to procreate with each other (which none do) or b) that same sex couples getting married (not just being together) actually negatively affected procreation levels, but this simply isn't true. And no one can prove that a child needs a mother and a father to be raised well. There is no "ideal" when it comes to childrearing. These reasons don't hold up to rational review, let alone intermediate scrutiny, as sex/gender restrictions should be placed.

    When it comes to relatives (first), the reasons are much more sound even if still a little shaky. The reasons are genetic issues with close relatives and undue influence in the relationship when the two are raised together. These are not just a small chance when we are talking siblings or parent/child, but rather a 40% chance of having genetic issues, something that can be proven. The other one is another thing we have other laws or rules against when it comes to other people. People are supposed to develop an aversion to relationships with their close relatives. If this doesn't develop naturally with someone a person is raised with, then there is reason to suspect some undue influence, grooming, in the relationship. Not to mention, relatives already have many of the rights that same sex couples are seeking, since the point of marriage is to establish a legal relationship that doesn't already exist. That is what legal marriage does for every single couple who gets married. In all honesty, I don't really care if same sex relatives get the right to marry or even if opposite sex relatives get the right to marry, but there are sound legal reasons against them, unlike with same sex marriage.

    As for multiple spouses, there are reasonable concerns when it comes to the logistics for the government and stress that it would put on the government to recognize additional spouses for potentially every person. Where do you limit number of spouses? Theoretically, with no limit, every person in the US could be legally married to every other person in the US and even the world, and the government would have to recognize those people as spouses. Even with only a few people married to each other, it would be a legal nightmare. We limit a person to only being allowed one person as their named legal medical decision maker, and that is something that comes automatically with marriage so long as no other legal paperwork exists naming someone else. It would cost the government money in immigration and benefits for military. It would lead to problems in family and divorce court for deciding everything from alimony and asset division, to who gets what custody/time/child support of the children.

    The state interest is not taken from "should it be allowed", but rather "why should it be restricted". You continually fail to recognize this.

    The reason people do not have a constitutional right to engage in certain acts is due to the states' reasoning behind the restrictions on those acts. Once challenged, the state can present its case for why such laws should be in place. In most of those things, the state has at least a reasonable argument, even if it is somewhat weak for some. It doesn't have to be a great argument. When it comes to same sex marriage restrictions, the state has no legitimate argument.

    We all know now that the 14th applied the US Constitution to the states as well. Just because the Constitution didn't originally apply at least in full, to the states, doesn't mean it doesn't currently due so, when it comes to rights guarantees to individuals. Like it or not, states lost power. But the Constitution still guaranteed rights to the citizens even if they shared them with the states from the beginning. The change made with the 14th tipped the power more towards individuals, as it should be. Many states have more people now than the entire country did in its first few decades of existence. It is pointless to have limited the power of the federal government to avoid having a tyranny of the majority, only to allow these smaller tyrannies of the majorities to exist as states.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Yeah, I wonder what percentage of children are born through normal means vs. artificial? I'm going to guess about 99.9999999%. I may be off by a digit. The remainder is not enough to populate a small village, let alone the human race. It's ridiculous to even think artificial means could replace nature's method.
    You'd be very wrong.

    More women using IVF than ever before - CNN.com

    In 2012, more than 3.95 million babies were born, the Centers for Disease Control reports (PDF). That's below what demographers call the "replacement level," the level at which the generation can replace itself. Of those births, IVF treatments account for about 1.5% of all babies born in the United States that year.
    That doesn't even account for using sperm donation (since not all those require IVF) or using another person (which might be rare, but does happen).

    The point is though, if necessary, as in if everyone suddenly became gay, we still know how to make babies through other means. So this means that heterosexual sex is not necessary for the continuation of our species.

    "Replacement level" is an artificial thing for us now because in reality, we don't need to constantly be procreating for our species to survive. It would take til 2300 for us to get down to just 1 billion people at a fertility rate of 1.5. That is at least 200 years of existence at a pretty low fertility rate.

    World population may actually start declining, not exploding.

    Here in reality though, heterosexual sex isn't going away anyway. It is still around and will be for a long time. So add that to the other methods we have for making babies, and we are fine as a species.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #539
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You can call it a marriage, but it's not. It's different, not the same as a marriage.
    In your opinion.

    This is a subjective statement and has to do with your personal definition of personal marriage, not legal marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    That applies to you as well, now doesn't it? Marriage is just for children? Not sure where I proclaimed that.
    No. Legal marriage is a specific thing in the law. Your argument is based off of your opinion of what you believe it should be, not what it actually is. Legal marriage is the only way to establish the legal relationship of "spouse" between two people. This legal relationship then has other rights and responsibilities, along with benefits and privileges that come with it. There is nothing about a person's sex/gender that prevents them from being able to take on the responsibilities of being a person's spouse who happens to be of the same gender.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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