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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    I'm sad to see how some grievance groups are more equal than others. Oh, when will this madness end!

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Considering the site and it's demographic, not interesting at all. Yes, it is understood that the majority of people are intolerant bigots… it's ok, eventually they will all no longer walk the face of the earth… then we can get down to real equality.
    My take on it is a little different. The most intolerant, bigoted people I see are the crusaders for various grievance groups. The irony that so many of them dare to call themselves "liberal" is good for a laugh, because they are anything but. They're mad--and they've convinced themselves their grievance is so righteous it gives them to right to be as uncivil as they please to anyone who disagrees with them.

    These people love to cast whoever it is they have the crying towel out for as participants in an updated version of the black civil rights struggle, claiming that the Fourteenth Amendment protects their group just as strongly as it does blacks. Of course that's nonsense, as the history of that amendment proves.

    But they imagine if they repeat this nonsense often and stridently enough, larding it generously with cheap slurs that anyone who disagrees with them is a hater, bigot, fill-in-the-blank-phobe, etc., their appeals to emotion will make up for their gross lack of knowledge and reasoning. They're confident this kind of "debate" will persuade their audience because its knowledge and reasoning power are no better than their own. And all too often, they're right.
    Last edited by matchlight; 08-20-14 at 08:54 PM.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    If you can't recognize the difference, I'm not going to bother.
    So you don't know one?

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Constitution does not guard against any "tyranny of the majority" at all, where many things are concerned. See, e.g., Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992) (holding that California law did not violate equal protection guarantee by imposing wildly different property taxes on owners of very similar homes). And flagrant discrimination by bluenoses against nudists and prostitutes and bestialists still plagues this supposedly advanced nation even today. These people aren't harming anyone, and yet our courts rubber-stamp laws that discriminate against them, as if the Equal Protection Clause didn't even exist.

    Then there are the would-be practitioners of adult incest or polygamy--who is going to bat for them? Where are the tear-jerking laments about how thousands of these poor souls are cruelly being denied the fundamental right to marry the loves of their lives by bigoted haters, just because they are different?

    I am not persuaded that there is any constitutional right for homosexuals to marry each other, or anything even vaguely approaching it. I have never seen anyone explain what the source of any such right is. That includes Justice Kennedy, whose arguments in Romer v. Evans, Lawrence v. Texas, and U.S. v. Windsor are so short on legal reasoning as to amount to not much more than ipse dixit.
    Those "practitioners of adult incest or polygamy" simply do not have the same legal arguments as couples of the same sex. There is no need to go to bat for them beyond ensuring that they have a chance to at least have their arguments heard. Honestly, there are people who support same sex marriage who support both of those things as well. I personally support making exceptions for certain incest cases (and I think first cousins will and should be the next laws we see fought to be taken down), and setting up some forms of marriage that offer at least some base protections for multiple spouses. Logistically though, the arguments against same sex marriage are nowhere near the same as those against multiple spouses or even those against incestuous marriages.

    The source of our rights that are protected is the Constitution and the very fact that the Constitution is supposed to protect individual rights first and foremost, including things that you may not personally like. Whether you like it or not, the Constitution was not meant to divide power between the states and the federal government. It is meant, especially the Bill of Rights and many of the following Amendments, to protect individual rights from governmental tyranny, from both the federal and state governments.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    So if someone has a difference of opinion with you on this issue they are intolerant bigots...The question begs to be asked who are the intolerant ones.
    No, I did not say that. A difference of opinion is a difference of opinion…. but one group of people not allowing for full freedom and liberty for others (because they are 'icky' or because their religion taught them it is 'wrong' or whatever other lame excuse they come up with) is showing intolerance and fighting against equality (and thus fighting against the principles of the constitution, like good little commies)….

    Those that are for equality have no problem with others not marrying those of the same sex, it doesn't effect them at all, as most people for equality believe in adults being happy with who they choose… the are not trying to force their beliefs on others, like you and your kind do.

    'Greatest generation' … man that's some funny crap right there… the generation of the KKK and rampant racism … called 'greatest'… oh my!
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    My take on it is a little different.
    blah blah blah blah… a load of right wing intolerant excuse making. The funny part is the tactic used is the same crap the left wingers use that those on the right complain about. LOL.

    Either you stand for and support the constitution and the ideas behind it, or you are a damn commie bastard… you have clearly chosen.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Constitution does not guard against any "tyranny of the majority" at all, where many things are concerned. See, e.g., Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992) (holding that California law did not violate equal protection guarantee by imposing wildly different property taxes on owners of very similar homes). And flagrant discrimination by bluenoses against nudists and prostitutes and bestialists still plagues this supposedly advanced nation even today. These people aren't harming anyone, and yet our courts rubber-stamp laws that discriminate against them, as if the Equal Protection Clause didn't even exist.

    Then there are the would-be practitioners of adult incest or polygamy--who is going to bat for them? Where are the tear-jerking laments about how thousands of these poor souls are cruelly being denied the fundamental right to marry the loves of their lives by bigoted haters, just because they are different?

    I am not persuaded that there is any constitutional right for homosexuals to marry each other, or anything even vaguely approaching it. I have never seen anyone explain what the source of any such right is. That includes Justice Kennedy, whose arguments in Romer v. Evans, Lawrence v. Texas, and U.S. v. Windsor are so short on legal reasoning as to amount to not much more than ipse dixit.
    That is all you need?

    Loving v. Virginia established that marriage is a fundamental right. According to the Supreme Court, any law restricting a fundamental right must both serve a compelling state purpose and be narrowly tailored to that compelling purpose. If marriage is denied to some individuals but not others then it is an equal protection issue under the 14th amendment. As such the state must demonstrate a compelling state purpose for denying marriage to same-sex couples. It has proven to be much easier for the state to come up with compelling state interests to deny marriage in cases of incest, etc. than it has been to come up for one for same-sex couples.

    Is that sufficient? Or are you looking for something more philosophical?

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes. That's why we have lots of laws like "you can't take your clothes and make someone's eyes bleed" and "you can't have wild monkey sex with a real wild monkey". It's disgusting. Lots of people don't want you doing that shyte in their neighborhood. Or state. Or country.
    Great! I find your religion disgusting. So let's ban it. Or is there, perhaps, a constitutional objection you might raise?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Constitution does not guard against any "tyranny of the majority" at all, where many things are concerned. See, e.g., Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992) (holding that California law did not violate equal protection guarantee by imposing wildly different property taxes on owners of very similar homes). And flagrant discrimination by bluenoses against nudists and prostitutes and bestialists still plagues this supposedly advanced nation even today. These people aren't harming anyone, and yet our courts rubber-stamp laws that discriminate against them, as if the Equal Protection Clause didn't even exist.

    Then there are the would-be practitioners of adult incest or polygamy--who is going to bat for them? Where are the tear-jerking laments about how thousands of these poor souls are cruelly being denied the fundamental right to marry the loves of their lives by bigoted haters, just because they are different?

    I am not persuaded that there is any constitutional right for homosexuals to marry each other, or anything even vaguely approaching it. I have never seen anyone explain what the source of any such right is. That includes Justice Kennedy, whose arguments in Romer v. Evans, Lawrence v. Texas, and U.S. v. Windsor are so short on legal reasoning as to amount to not much more than ipse dixit.
    I've already explained to you intermediate scrutiny under the 14th amendment. There's your reason.

    Nudists aren't covered by intermediate scrutiny, so I'm not sure why you think there's a valid comparison to a same-sex marriage ban.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    My take on it is a little different. The most intolerant, bigoted people I see are the crusaders for various grievance groups. The irony that so many of them dare to call themselves "liberal" is good for a laugh, because they are anything but. They're mad--and they've convinced themselves their grievance is so righteous it gives them to right to be as uncivil as they please to anyone who disagrees with them.

    These people love to cast whoever it is they have the crying towel out for as participants in an updated version of the black civil rights struggle, claiming that the Fourteenth Amendment protects their group just as strongly as it does blacks. Of course that's nonsense, as the history of that amendment proves.

    But they imagine if they repeat this nonsense often and stridently enough, larding it generously with cheap slurs that anyone who disagrees with them is a hater, bigot, fill-in-the-blank-phobe, etc., their appeals to emotion will make up for their gross lack of knowledge and reasoning. They're confident this kind of "debate" will persuade their audience because its knowledge and reasoning power are no better than their own. And all too often, they're right.
    Is this grand tantrum of yours because people called you a bigot? That's the "uncivil" behavior you're complaining about? You know what's uncivil? Voting for an unconstitutional law that suppresses freedom of the individual based solely on your personal dislike for that individual. You don't like gay people, so you want their freedom suppressed. You hide it behind all sorts of pseudo-legal babble, but that's really it. And when you finally admit to that, perhaps some real debate can happen. Here's a strange thing I've noticed about you: Not once have you complained about the insults that the anti-equality crowd throws at gay people. Where's your outrage then?

    The 14th amendment protects gender in addition to race. The level of constitutional scrutiny is lower, but it's there. Your response to that fact has boiled down to "Nuh uh!"
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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