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Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
I never said YOU had to do anything.
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You said that you would want to make adultery illegal because those who commit adultery are breaking a vow they made to God or before God. I'm saying that not everyone who gets married makes a vow to God, either to only have sexual relations with that other person or at all, and it certainly is not a legal vow even if they do make one, at least not to God. The reason that they can be held accountable within civil courts (such as during divorce) for adultery or "alienation of affection" is because it is considered that a person made an oral promise to another to remain faithful to them with their affections. There are only a few states that still allow such suits (NC is one of them).

Alienation of Affection: Cost of Adultery

So, if adultery were to be made illegal, particularly for the reason you stated you thought it should be illegal earlier, that would mean that you would be trying to force people to live up to vows that they didn't actually take.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

polisciguy said:
I think I speak for us all when I say that if we legalize same-sex marriages, the terrorists win and Jesus weeps.
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Actually you don't (speak for everyone that is).

A decade ago ban's on Same-sex Civil Marriage won at the ballot box, a decade later (General Election 2012) SSCM was on the ballot in 4 states and opponents of Marriage Equality lost in all 4 votes which backs up consistent polling data showing that more and more people feel that the government shouldn't be discriminating against homosexuals.



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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WorldWatcher said:
Actually you don't (speak for everyone that is).

A decade ago ban's on Same-sex Civil Marriage won at the ballot box, a decade later (General Election 2012) SSCM was on the ballot in 4 states and opponents of Marriage Equality lost in all 4 votes which backs up consistent polling data showing that more and more people feel that the government shouldn't be discriminating against homosexuals.



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Relax my friend. I was injecting humor into this thread because it is painful to read.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

polisciguy said:
Relax my friend. I was injecting humor into this thread because it is painful to read.
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Message boards are written communication so without a [HUMOR] or [SARCASM] tag it's kid of hard to know when someone is projecting humor.



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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

matchlight said:
It can't be long before a militant nudism movement arises, inspired by other strident grievance groups to demand their rights. I can just see them shrieking angrily at "xtian haters" who want to deny them the right to go nude in public, just because they feel ashamed of sex and nudity and want to force their puritanical, xtian beliefs on everyone else. "Take your god-based bull and shove it--you don't have the right to tell me and mine how to live!!!"

I imagine these crusaders will ape the black civil rights movement, shamelessly trying to compare the restrictions that peeve them to Jim Crow while adding their own cute symbols and bumper-sticker slogans. "Bare is Fair!" Maybe they'll borrow a page from the homosexuals, and purposely go nude into small bakeries to order the cakes for their nude weddings. They could keep this up until they found a baker who was scandalized enough to refuse their business, and then sue him for discrimination.

I expect militant nudists will claim that just as with same-sex marriage, the state laws that frustrate them are arbitrary, because the government can't show how nudism hurts anyone. Even if public nudity is legal on certain beaches, etc., they will howl that their lifestyle deserves to be recognized everywhere, just like the clothed lifestyle is. And even if their own state had made public nudity legal everywhere, it wouldn't be enough--they'd insist that it was a constitutional right, so that every other state had to legalize it, too.
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You do realize that it would be a very bad idea to walk around with weapons while naked, right? Since you are trying to misuse the word "militant".

In reality, nudists have pushed for changes to laws in many places. They have also fought against some. They are easily countered when it comes to laws against full nudity by sanitation concerns. Otherwise, they have some true grievances that should be addressed. For instance, just being naked or charged with indecent exposure should absolutely not be a reason alone to put someone on a sex offender list. Being naked does not connect with sex except in the minds of those who want to make that connection, which is generally only those who are offended by it.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WorldWatcher said:
Message boards are written communication so without a [HUMOR] or [SARCASM] tag it's kid of hard to know when someone is projecting humor.



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That's true. But this message board also lacks a significant number of rational human beings, so I let tags slide. Also, it is a sad reality that I can totally understand why my post wasn't obvious humor. This is the modern world we live in, and I shake my head.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WorldWatcher said:
Message boards are written communication so without a [HUMOR] or [SARCASM] tag it's kid of hard to know when someone is projecting humor.



>>>>
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For me, the "terrorists win" part was the give-away that his post was in jest. :)
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

matchlight said:
No one gives a damn what they want to do in their state--let them go around scaring the livestock if that makes their day. I don't get to Kansas often, and I don't have to look at them. But suppose the people who pushed for this weren't satisfied with just Kansas?

What if they were strident crusaders who were determined to force their views on everyone else, so that they wouldn't feel like the deviants they are? What if they tried the homosexuals' tack and constantly shrieked to anyone who would listen that allstate laws against nudism are unconstitutional, because they are motivated by nothing but naked hostility (couldn't resist) toward nudists--and therefore there they don't promote any legitimate government interest?

Point well taken.
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Being naked is natural. In fact, wearing clothes is unnatural. We are born naked. There is nothing "deviant" about being naked, even in public.

And no, I am not a nudist. I am uncomfortable showing my body to other people without a purpose for doing so. However, I don't judge those who aren't uncomfortable doing that, nor do I expect them to completely conform to the rest of society simply because some others erroneously link nudity with sex. That is on those "some others", not those who simply wish to be naked, even in public. I am not uncomfortable seeing others naked (although I wouldn't want to have them in certain places or doing certain things for sanitation reasons).
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

matchlight said:
The nudists wouldn't need any compelling constitutional reason, if they followed the same-sex marriage playbook. They could just claim that state laws against public nudism were not rationally related to any legitimate purpose of government. That's the basic standard the Supreme Court applies under its so-called "rational basis review."

If a party challenging a state law on Fourteenth Amendment due process or equal protection grounds can show that the law does not meet this standard, the law will be unconstitutional. The reasoning behind this is that purely arbitrary laws are not laws at all. It at least has to be conceivable that the legislature that passed a law might have thought it was a reasonable way to achieve some legitimate purpose of government.
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Except for the fact that laws against at least full public nudity are rationally related to a legitimate purpose of government, keeping things sanitary for all of the public. Our bodies "leak", particularly certain parts that are normally covered by clothing, areas generally deemed "nude" or "private" areas. That "leakage" is unsanitary.

Now, certain parts or aspects of nudity laws should be challenged, as I said earlier. And they are being challenged without having anything to do with same sex marriage laws.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
a Fundamentalist I'm not. I don't want Gays corrupting the sanctity marriage and would like cheaters [in a relationship] to pay some sort of price for their indiscretions and you make me out to be a tyrant. 8)

Assumptions
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Right because marriage is so "sanctified" now with an almost 50% divorce rate amongst HETEROSEXUALS. Maybe you should worry more about heterosexuals ruining the "sanctity" of marriage first less you look like a hypocrite.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
a Fundamentalist I'm not. I don't want Gays corrupting the sanctity marriage and would like cheaters [in a relationship] to pay some sort of price for their indiscretions and you make me out to be a tyrant. 8)

Assumptions
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First of all, your ideas of what "corrupts" marriage are nothing more than personal opinion and have no place being enforced by laws.

Second, whether a person is cheating or not should be between the couple, not others not involved in the relationship. And cheating should be only enforced as other violations of oral contracts are, through civil suits or proceedings, such as taken into consideration during a divorce hearing. That should be it. It is a civil agreement and should be handled in civil court, not criminal court.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
Keep it in your F-n bedroom, stop trying to tear down tradition and quit making a spectacle of yourselves and you'll be surprised how accepted you'll be.
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Some traditions need to be torn down. In reality though, "traditional marriage" never really existed the way many want to believe it did to begin with.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

The whole "sanctity of marriage" argument is as ignorant and lame as equating "gay" with pedophilia and bestiality.

It's just a last ditch grasp at a wet noodle before plunging below the waterline of reason and reality.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

roguenuke said:
You said that you would want to make adultery illegal because those who commit adultery are breaking a vow they made to God or before God. I'm saying that not everyone who gets married makes a vow to God, either to only have sexual relations with that other person or at all, and it certainly is not a legal vow even if they do make one, at least not to God. The reason that they can be held accountable within civil courts (such as during divorce) for adultery or "alienation of affection" is because it is considered that a person made an oral promise to another to remain faithful to them with their affections. There are only a few states that still allow such suits (NC is one of them).

Alienation of Affection: Cost of Adultery

So, if adultery were to be made illegal, particularly for the reason you stated you thought it should be illegal earlier, that would mean that you would be trying to force people to live up to vows that they didn't actually take.
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No I only referred to MY OWN MARRIAGE
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TheNextEra said:
Right because marriage is so "sanctified" now with an almost 50% divorce rate amongst HETEROSEXUALS. Maybe you should worry more about heterosexuals ruining the "sanctity" of marriage first less you look like a hypocrite.
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Those who take their vows (before God or not) seriously are the 50% who stay married. That's quite a lot of people.

I already posted an article stating homosexuals who are married don't take monogamy (nor the marriage itself) seriously. Here's another.

Were Christians Right About Gay Marriage All Along? - The Daily Beast
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
Those who take their vows (before God or not) seriously are the 50% who stay married. That's quite a lot of people.

I already posted an article stating homosexuals who are married don't take monogamy (nor the marriage itself) seriously. Here's another.

Were Christians Right About Gay Marriage All Along? - The Daily Beast
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Sorry but I know MANY who have taking their vows before "their god" and got divorced even in the Roman Catholic religion. And to paint ALL gays with a broad-brush that they don't take monogamy seriously is idiotic at best. Even the author doesn't claim the conclusions you do.

I wouldn't call your comments homophobic, but your comments are incredibly ignorant when it comes to gays and the gay community. The fact remains, take care of your 50% heterosexual divorce rate before you attack someone else.

BTW, my wife and I did NOT take our vows before God and our marriage has been just fine. The secret isn't getting married under God, the secret is understanding, communication, and forgiveness. That can be done with ANY marriage.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TheNextEra said:
Sorry but I know MANY who have taking their vows before "their god" and got divorced even in the Roman Catholic religion. And to paint ALL gays with a broad-brush that they don't take monogamy seriously is idiotic at best. Even the author doesn't claim the conclusions you do.

I wouldn't call your comments homophobic, but your comments are incredibly ignorant when it comes to gays and the gay community. The fact remains, take care of your 50% heterosexual divorce rate before you attack someone else.

BTW, my wife and I did NOT take our vows before God and our marriage has been just fine. The secret isn't getting married under God, the secret is understanding, communication, and forgiveness. That can be done with ANY marriage.
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This was the study in question. Relationship Characteristics and Motivations behind Agreements among Gay Male Couples: Differences by Agreement Type and Couple Serostatus

I'm happy for your marriage but, there's nothing I can do about the ones that fail.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
Those who take their vows (before God or not) seriously are the 50% who stay married. That's quite a lot of people.

I already posted an article stating homosexuals who are married don't take monogamy (nor the marriage itself) seriously. Here's another.

Were Christians Right About Gay Marriage All Along? - The Daily Beast
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You should probably read the articles you post.

Not only is that article an opinion piece and nothing else, the author isn't supporting your claim.

Personally, I’m not on board with either the progressive or the conservative doomsday scenarios. Unlike the radicals, I don’t think straight people need the gays to perpetuate (or destroy) the institution of marriage, and I don’t think gays were ever as liberation-minded as the romantic history suggests. And unlike the conservatives, I don’t think a few non-monogamous gay couples will turn the world into Studio 54; once again, philandering televangelists don’t need queers to teach them how to sleep around.

But I do like the notion of same-sex marriage as a liberation gateway drug. Inclusion of LGBT people within institutions like marriage will eventually transform those institutions, just as including women, non-whites, non-Anglos, and non-Christians has done. The experiences and perspectives of LGBT people are different from those of straight people, and different in a good way.
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Gay Marriage: States That Allow Same-Sex Unions Have Lower Divorce Rates



Divorce & Marriage Rates for Same-Sex Couples | Frederick Hertz

1. Nearly 150,000 same-sex couples have either married or registered civil unions or domestic partnerships, which constitutes about one-fifth of same-sex couples in the U.S. (or rather, a fifth of those who acknowledged themselves as such in recent United States Census reports).

2. About 1% of the total number of currently-married or registered same-sex couples get divorced each year, in comparison to about 2% of the total number of married straight couples. Note that the percentage of couples that get divorced eventually is close to 50%, but only 1% or 2% of them get divorced in any particular year.
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Same-sex divorce rate lower than heterosexual couples



In other word, but not surprisingly, your bigotry is easily dismissed.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
That's exactly how the Progressive LBGQT community feels..

Were Christians Right About Gay Marriage All Along? - The Daily Beast
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So once again, back to the killer question from SCOTUS. What harm does gay marriage do to straight marriage? Religious morality is a personal thing.

You can decide that gay's will burn in Hell based on religious beliefs, but how does it, effect or diminish your straight marriage if they marry?

Humans have always had a percentage of the population that have been gay, Somehow I don't believe gay marriage it's going to send the rest of us gay and find a boyfriend, and suddenly discover our Gay Self!
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

matchlight said:
What if they were strident crusaders who were determined to force their views on everyone else, so that they wouldn't feel like the deviants they are?
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You mean like the self righteous religious zealots who wish to impose their dogma driven ignorance on society? Is that why they shout at people at abortion clinics, soldiers funerals, etc etc? I agree deviants like the religious right have to be marginalized so that the rest of people can enjoy their freedom.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

WCH said:
This was the study in question. Relationship Characteristics and Motivations behind Agreements among Gay Male Couples: Differences by Agreement Type and Couple Serostatus

I'm happy for your marriage but, there's nothing I can do about the ones that fail.
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That study had to deal with Gay COUPLES, not married gay couples. You do realize that heterosexual couples are more likely to not be monogamous than married ones right?

Ah I see, you can't do anything about heterosexual marriages that fail, but you want to prevent gay couples from marrying. That makes NO sense whatseover. You ignore one sin but go after another. Pretty Hypocritical.
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Zinthaniel said:
You should probably read the articles you post.

Not only is that article an opinion piece and nothing else, the author isn't supporting your claim.



Gay Marriage: States That Allow Same-Sex Unions Have Lower Divorce Rates



Divorce & Marriage Rates for Same-Sex Couples*|*Frederick Hertz



Same-sex divorce rate lower than heterosexual couples



In other word, but not surprisingly, your bigotry is easily dismissed.
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'

I know what it says. It also lays out all the possibilities. And yes it is just one person's opinion.

This is the study. Relationship Characteristics and Motivations behind Agreements among Gay Male Couples: Differences by Agreement Type and Couple Serostatus
 
Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

TheNextEra said:
That study had to deal with Gay COUPLES, not married gay couples. You do realize that heterosexual couples are more likely to not be monogamous than married ones right?

Ah I see, you can't do anything about heterosexual marriages that fail, but you want to prevent gay couples from marrying. That makes NO sense whatseover. You ignore one sin but go after another. Pretty Hypocritical.
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That's neither here nor there, cheating is cheating in my eyes. They are all sinful.

The discussion is not whether heteros can marry or how many get divorced, it's about Gays.
 
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