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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    My apologies to the group, I mis-appropriated the 'harm' question exchange. Here's the actual exchange between Justices Kagen, Kennedy & the attorney Mr Cooper:

    JUSTICE KAGAN: Well, could you explain that
    a little bit to me, just because I did not pick this up
    in your briefs.
    What harm you see happening and when and how
    and -- what -- what harm to the institution of marriage
    or to opposite-sex couples, how does this cause and
    effect work?
    MR. COOPER: Once again, I -- I would
    reiterate that we don't believe that's the correct legal
    question before the Court, and that the correct question
    is whether or not redefining marriage to include
    same-sex couples would advance the interests of marriage
    as a -*
    JUSTICE KENNEDY: Well, then are -- are you
    conceding the point that there is no harm or denigration
    to traditional opposite-sex marriage couples? So you're
    conceding that.

    Old age and the fact that I was typing original post from my cellphone and couldn't check, contributed to my original mistake. Actually old age, a couple of Gin & Tonics were the primary reason LOL
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That question has been answered over and over again in this thread...
    NO IT HAS NOT.

    All you have ever done regarding that question is avoid it at all costs because you know the answer will sabotage the MULTIPLE DOZENS of threads you've started about anything and everything gay.

    You're obsessed with homosexuality. On every level.

    Yet when confronted with the simplest question you avoid it like the plague and redirect or ignore it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    Your hetero marriage is not effected in any way, shape, or form when a gay couple marries. It's just that simple and yet you refuse to admit it.

    I'm straight and married. I know of at least three gay people I work with who are now legally married to their gay partner. My marriage has not been changed or effected at all. The ground did not shake when "the queers" married. The pictures of my wedding did not burst into flames when "the homos" said "I do". The law did not come take my kids away from me, my dog did not run away from home, and my neighbors did not become violent thieves who try to set my house on fire to get to my valuable belongings.

    I've been married for 24 years and a couple of "fags" getting married isn't going to change what I have because what I have doesn't rely on what other people do.

    I know some great people who happen to be gay. I would be honored to stand in, or attend their weddings if they asked. I see no reason to deny them anything simply because "god" made them gay.

    So again, why is your marriage so weak and fragile that total strangers getting married somewhere can change what you have?

    How has your marriage changed knowing that gay people in the USofA are in fact now getting legally married?

    There's a distinct possibility a gay couple somewhere in the USofA got married within the last 24 hours.
    Has your marriage somehow changed in the last 24 hours because of that?

    Stop avoiding the question and answer it outright. Step up to the plate and be a man. Don't avoid it like you always do.

    Delaware allows legal gay marriage.
    If a gay couple in Delaware gets married today, how does YOUR marriage change NP?

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I'm straight and married. I know of at least three gay people I work with who are now legally married to their gay partner. My marriage has not been changed or effected at all. The ground did not shake when "the queers" married. The pictures of my wedding did not burst into flames when "the homos" said "I do". The law did not come take my kids away from me, my dog did not run away from home, and my neighbors did not become violent thieves who try to set my house on fire to get to my valuable belongings.
    You listen to way to many country songs!
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You listen to way to many country songs!
    Nah can't be country...where was the three legged blind dog and the unrequited love?
    I support the right to keep and arm bears

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Again, that is your opinion. Countless thousands of laws in this country, particularly criminal laws, advance moral beliefs held by majorities. And the ultimate basis for those moral beliefs is religious tenets. But the fact most people consider rape and robbery immoral, for example, hardly makes rape and robbery "100% religious" issues that have no place in public policy.
    To persuade anyone of the dangers of your slippery slope, you'll have to do better than that. No need to turn to morality to defend laws against rape or robbery. Rape is a physical assault, justified on the same basis that it's illegal for me to break your legs with a lead pipe for no reason. Robbery violates fundamental property rights. The harms are clear and if challenged in court the state would have no problem providing a long list why banning those activities are in the public interest. Furthermore, there is no public interest served in allowing individuals to rape and rob at will, and there is no conceivable right to assault another person or take her property.

    I don't believe that paean to radical individualism for a moment. We are members of a society, not just so many individuals in isolation. And all societies, including this one, have always shared--and enforced--certain moral convictions, in the form of laws. Laws necessarily regulate behavior, and he only way every individual can be left perfectly free to decide what acts are moral is to abandon all laws.
    No one has argued individuals should be "perfectly free" to decide anything.

  6. #1176
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The only Prop 8 case the Supreme Court decided, as far as I know, was Hollingsworth v. Perry. And my transcript of the oral arguments in that case do not show Justice Thomas breaking his longstanding practice of not asking questions at oral argument. So I have no idea what you mean when you talk about Thomas asking a "what harm" question that made the lawyer splutter, or constituted a defining moment. Please clarify.
    I don't know who asked the question, but the question came up. And the prop 8 supporters were unable to identify any harm caused by same-sex marriage.

    It should be obvious that whether same-sex partners are included in state marriage laws is very much a question both of public policy and of law.

    Thanks to strident minorities who want to bypass the democratic process and force their policy preference on millions of people whose laws they are not even subject to--and federal judges who are eager to help them do that--it is also being made into a constitutional issue.
    The same could have been said about any number of laws overturned on constitutional grounds. All matters of public law are subject to the constitution. Ballot measures do not magically bypass the constitution. There is an obvious constitutional question here that needs to be resolved. I don't care how many people voted for something unconstitutional, there's no reason to wait for the democratic process to reverse it.

    Again, that is your opinion. Countless thousands of laws in this country, particularly criminal laws, advance moral beliefs held by majorities. And the ultimate basis for those moral beliefs is religious tenets. But the fact most people consider rape and robbery immoral, for example, hardly makes rape and robbery "100% religious" issues that have no place in public policy.
    Specific harm from rape and robbery can be identified. No religious basis is required. Nobody is saying moral opinions can't be a motivation, they're saying moral opinions can't be the only basis.

    I don't believe that paean to radical individualism for a moment. We are members of a society, not just so many individuals in isolation. And all societies, including this one, have always shared--and enforced--certain moral convictions, in the form of laws. Laws necessarily regulate behavior, and he only way every individual can be left perfectly free to decide what acts are moral is to abandon all laws.
    Certain moral convictions are enforced. This does not justify all moral convictions.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    NOM tried to appeal the overturn in Oregon, appeal rejected.

    Dear NOM,
    We already settled this with Prop 8. You do not have the standing to appeal these cases, because same-sex marriage being legal doesn't affect you in any way. The Supreme Court said so. What, did you think the 9th circuit court of appeals was going to ignore that blindingly-obvious precedent? Are you people dense?

    Sincerely,
    Deuce
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You listen to way to many country songs!
    I wanna hear Tim McGraw doing "Stand by your Man".


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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Can we vote on your right to do something instead? I want to vote up or down on your right to get married.
    Don't need it, it's already law.

  10. #1180
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramercat View Post
    Don't need it, it's already law.
    Not if 50.1% of the population disapproves.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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