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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

  1. #1161
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That question has been answered over and over again in this thread...Do you lefties ever read the other posts or just throw **** up against the wall and hope something sticks.
    Firstly, not a lefty, and Yes I do read and you have skirted the question over and over.

    Does it harm you? Yes or No?
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That question has been answered over and over again in this thread...Do you lefties ever read the other posts or just throw **** up against the wall and hope something sticks.
    No it hasn't. You say there's an effect, but can never specify what that is. It's always vague stuff about erosion of values and attacking an institution. That's not an effect, that's a catchphrase.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #1163
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That question has been answered over and over again in this thread...Do you lefties ever read the other posts or just throw **** up against the wall and hope something sticks.
    Actually it hasn't. And it hasn't ever been answered in any of the dozens of threads on this topic.

    We all know you cite things like this and then every single time fail to cite a single instance of what you claimed happened.

    I'd ask you to cite just one example of what you claimed was explained, but we all know you can't do it. You can't cite what doesn't exist.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonic View Post
    Firstly, not a lefty, and Yes I do read and you have skirted the question over and over.

    Does it harm you? Yes or No?
    The simple truth of the matter is the only reason they're against it is for bigotry reasons. They simply do not want to admit it. Even Republican Conservative appointed judges nationwide are coming up empty trying to find anything that would justify a legal ban and many of the overturns have been by such judges. We don't see as much "judicial activism" claims because it makes the anti-gay marriage crowd look astonishing stupid to claim that against a judge from their own party. They did that initially and got burned to the point it was obvious they defined that phrase as any ruling they disliked for whatever reason.

    I recently made a poll regarding marriage bans on things we find icky. The anti-gay marriage crowd avoided that. Seems they know at least to avoid traps that show just how hypocritical they are.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #1165
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I grow weary repeating myself.

    TOPIC at hand: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    NO!
    You're the one who brought up cheating and now you're complaining that it's not on topic?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Hey you want to cheat and avoid the legal penalties?...get a divorce first.

    Stop it with the Fundie crap.
    What Fundie crap? We're working off your own words. So unless you're a "Fundie", then it's not "Fundie crap".

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    State laws that criminalize adultery rest on the same basis as laws that make crimes of all sort of other sex-related acts--adult incest, bestiality, prostitution, bigamy, polygamy, and so on. And that is the belief of the majority in a state that those acts are immoral and unacceptable.
    I've already addressed this point to you and you seemed to have ignored it since it completely undermines your argument. State laws, specifically Virgina's, had made illegal interracial marriage based upon the desire of the majority in the state. SCOTUS struck down those laws, noting, as they did in other cases, that marriage is a fundamental right. Therefore there is legal precedent that majority view of what is and isn't moral and acceptable does not trump basic rights, which include the legal state of marriage.

    If that is no longer a good enough reason for the people of a state to exclude same-sex partners from their marriage laws, it will no longer be a good enough reason to prohibit these other acts, either. If it were unconstitutional to exclude same-sex partners from marriage laws, why would it not also be unconstitutional to continue to exclude partners who were more closely related by blood than some specified degree--i.e. partners in adult incest? You know--equal protection, and all that.
    For the same reason that interracial marriage and same sex marriage should not be illegal, not should adult incest. The reason for such are listed in the various incest threads, so go over there to discuss them. No hijacking. Polygamy, while it would fall under the same arguments for having it legal as for SSM, interracial marriage and adult incest, is not logistically feasible at this time due to all the other laws that have arisen over the course of this countri4es history. We would have to make some other legal changes before we could bring back this practice into the legal arena. However, there is nothing to prevent a triad or larger from establishing a household sans the legal rights and protections that are exclusive to marriage. Prostitution has also been shown to fall within many of those same arguments. Bigamy has only to do with legal marriage and thus has no moral standing whatsoever. I can technically be guilty of polygamy without being guilty of bigamy, except that the legal precedent now shows that the law can only recognize legal marriages when applying such laws. Bestiality has been rejected due to the consent issues. It is the orange among the apples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonic View Post
    I think SCOTUS, for once came up with the right question. What Harm is done? Incest, Polygamy etc there is a public harm that can be justifiably argued.
    You honestly can't come up with consistent harms that are solely based upon either incest or polygamy. Sure there can be situations that could arise alongside incest and polygamy such as child abuse and abuse against women, but since these things also occur in non incest and non polygamy situations, there is no direct connection to incest or polygamy being that cause.
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  6. #1166
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonic View Post
    I think SCOTUS, for once came up with the right question. What Harm is done? Incest, Polygamy etc there is a public harm that can be justifiably argued. SSM, when asked the 'what harm' question by Justice Thomas, the lead attorney for Prop 8 spluttered. It was a defining moment in legal history
    The only Prop 8 case the Supreme Court decided, as far as I know, was Hollingsworth v. Perry. And my transcript of the oral arguments in that case do not show Justice Thomas breaking his longstanding practice of not asking questions at oral argument. So I have no idea what you mean when you talk about Thomas asking a "what harm" question that made the lawyer splutter, or constituted a defining moment. Please clarify.

    Ultimately the whole SSM issue is nothing to do with public good, policy or law.
    It should be obvious that whether same-sex partners are included in state marriage laws is very much a question both of public policy and of law.

    Thanks to strident minorities who want to bypass the democratic process and force their policy preference on millions of people whose laws they are not even subject to--and federal judges who are eager to help them do that--it is also being made into a constitutional issue.

    I's a 100% religious issue. Religion, like sex, should be a personal and private thing. Restricted to the home, and have no place whatsoever in 'public' policy.
    Again, that is your opinion. Countless thousands of laws in this country, particularly criminal laws, advance moral beliefs held by majorities. And the ultimate basis for those moral beliefs is religious tenets. But the fact most people consider rape and robbery immoral, for example, hardly makes rape and robbery "100% religious" issues that have no place in public policy.

    Our own morality and eternal soul are our own responsibility.
    I don't believe that paean to radical individualism for a moment. We are members of a society, not just so many individuals in isolation. And all societies, including this one, have always shared--and enforced--certain moral convictions, in the form of laws. Laws necessarily regulate behavior, and he only way every individual can be left perfectly free to decide what acts are moral is to abandon all laws.
    Last edited by matchlight; 08-28-14 at 12:45 AM.

  7. #1167
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Ditto for you. 8)
    Not at all. Unlike you, I post accurate information and concepts with sound logic. I also know the difference between fact and belief. These are all concepts that you fail at.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Like your faux-Judaism?
    More like the lack of faith that you have in whatever religion you practice.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #1169
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    That's neither here nor there, cheating is cheating in my eyes. They are all sinful.

    The discussion is not whether heteros can marry or how many get divorced, it's about Gays.
    Your eyes are irrelevant to factual information. The study you presented did not address the issue that you wanted it to. That's why your "eyes" are pretty meaningless.

    Once again, you confuse fact with belief.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #1170
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Is there any "conservative" think tank that you feel is credible? I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your assessment of Heritage, but I have noted that there are many people who dismiss this think tank or that one purely on the basis of being liberal or conservative. Are there any conservative ones out there, that while you may disagree with their conclusions and/or premises, you hold as honest in their methods?
    None that I can think of.

    In that same vein, are there any religious belief systems that you hold to be credible?
    Yes. Those that don't use extremism, fundamentalism, and a lack of inclusiveness as part of their system.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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