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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The spam and ridiculous premises I have seen on these threads are your own. You haven't even the faintest grasp of the constitutional issues involved, as you've made painfully clear several times. You haven't offered any constitutional reasoning worth the name. I assume that's not because you're refusing to, but simply because you have none to offer. And I don't care that a federal appeals court has seen fit to declare a fundamental right to same-sex marriage.
    Classic moving goalposts. You asked for a court case, I gave you one. Now apparently you only accept SCOTUS decisions. That's an interesting metric to use. I suppose the day before the Loving decision you would have vehemently argued that nobody had ever declared interracial marriage to be a right before, therefore it wasn't a right.

    Why don't you tell us all why that decision is so important to anyone outside the states in that jurisdiction? Please explain why, when the Court has so strongly shied away from taking the fundamental rights/strict scrutiny path on this subject, Anthony Kennedy will feel obliged to follow a lower federal court down it. Tell us why Kennedy, as Justice Scalia pointed out in his Lawrence dissent, even though he claimed to be overruling Bowers v. Hardwick, was so careful to leave intact Bowers' central holding: That there is no fundamental right to homosexual sodomy.
    Wait, now you want to talk about sodomy? This thread is about marriage, dude.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Rather than debate this point with you any further, I'll just note that I don't know of anyplace in the Supreme Court's three "gay" decisions since Bowers v. Hardwick in 1986--Romer v. Evans, Lawrence v. Texas, or U.S. v. Windsor--where it has shown even the slightest inclination to take up the argument you're making. And that would be because no party had chosen to make that argument in its briefs. If it had the merit you seem to think it has, it's a little surprising all those extremely able lawyers flat missed it in cases claiming discrimination against homosexuals.
    I can turn this around and suggest that your arguments must be fundamentally flawed because over and over and over again various federal judges are rejecting arguments for same-sex marriage bans.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #1153
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    State laws that criminalize adultery rest on the same basis as laws that make crimes of all sort of other sex-related acts--adult incest, bestiality, prostitution, bigamy, polygamy, and so on. And that is the belief of the majority in a state that those acts are immoral and unacceptable.

    If that is no longer a good enough reason for the people of a state to exclude same-sex partners from their marriage laws, it will no longer be a good enough reason to prohibit these other acts, either. If it were unconstitutional to exclude same-sex partners from marriage laws, why would it not also be unconstitutional to continue to exclude partners who were more closely related by blood than some specified degree--i.e. partners in adult incest? You know--equal protection, and all that.

    The intellectual dishonesty--or maybe it is just lack of intellect--on display in many people who assert that something in the Constitution prohibits any state from excluding same-sex partners from its marriage laws is stunning. What they are desperate to deny is that declaring a constitutional right to same-sex marriage would remove the basis for laws against a wide range of other acts.

    These people want to have their pet activity declared a right, and then, once that's done, arbitrarily deny people the right to engage in public nudity, bestiality, public masturbation, adult incest, bigamy, polygamy and so on. It's funny to watch them try to cook up harmful consequences that legalizing these things would supposedly have, since that is the very thing they constantly accuse people who oppose declaring same-sex marriage a constitutional right of doing. I can't just see the would-be adulterers, nudists, bestialists, etc., furiously accusing everyone of bigotry for denying them their equal rights.
    Adultery laws have not been enforced in the very few states they are still on the books in since at least 2003. There is a reason for this. Prosecutors across the country know that if they attempt to prosecute someone charged criminally for adultery, they are almost certainly going to face a losing case. Either the jury would simply nullify (I know I would if I were on the jury) or it would reach the SCOTUS. Adultery has no business being in our criminal statutes. And that is the belief of the majority in most states.

    Those other things you mention, for the most part, have other reasons for why such laws exist, beyond them merely being "immoral and unacceptable". They can be shown to further legitimate state interests in some way (although I think some should absolutely be challenged, at least some specific circumstances).

    Morally unacceptable hasn't been a "good reason" for a law that restricts individual liberties/freedoms in quite some time.

    You really have no clue about equal protection at all.

    Many who are for same sex marriage actually support legalizing at least some of those things you mentioned, which only proves how little you know about the arguments in relation to same sex marriage and those other things.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    State laws that criminalize adultery rest on the same basis as laws that make crimes of all sort of other sex-related acts--adult incest, bestiality, prostitution, bigamy, polygamy, and so on. And that is the belief of the majority in a state that those acts are immoral and unacceptable.

    If that is no longer a good enough reason for the people of a state to exclude same-sex partners from their marriage laws, it will no longer be a good enough reason to prohibit these other acts, either. If it were unconstitutional to exclude same-sex partners from marriage laws, why would it not also be unconstitutional to continue to exclude partners who were more closely related by blood than some specified degree--i.e. partners in adult incest? You know--equal protection, and all that.

    The intellectual dishonesty--or maybe it is just lack of intellect--on display in many people who assert that something in the Constitution prohibits any state from excluding same-sex partners from its marriage laws is stunning. What they are desperate to deny is that declaring a constitutional right to same-sex marriage would remove the basis for laws against a wide range of other acts.

    These people want to have their pet activity declared a right, and then, once that's done, arbitrarily deny people the right to engage in public nudity, bestiality, public masturbation, adult incest, bigamy, polygamy and so on. It's funny to watch them try to cook up harmful consequences that legalizing these things would supposedly have, since that is the very thing they constantly accuse people who oppose declaring same-sex marriage a constitutional right of doing. I can't just see the would-be adulterers, nudists, bestialists, etc., furiously accusing everyone of bigotry for denying them their equal rights.
    I can identify harmful consequences of public nudity and public masturbation. Polygamy, I cannot. Can you? We'll throw out bestiality, because animals cannot consent to sexual activity. That you'd compare that to homosexuality while simultaneously saying it's just not fair that people keep bringing up interracial marriage in these threads is comical.

    And why your focus on sex? This thread is about marriage. Marriage isn't sex.

    If you are against polygamy, you'd better identify a sufficiently powerful state interest in banning it. I support same-sex marriage and have a constitutional argument for it, that places no burden on me regarding whatever other sexual activity you're currently obsessing over. I don't approve of polygamy, but if I can't identify a legitimate state interest in banning it then it shouldn't be banned. That's the difference between you and me. I believe my personal disapproval isn't enough to ban someone else's actions.
    Last edited by Deuce; 08-27-14 at 07:55 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    State laws that criminalize adultery rest on the same basis as laws that make crimes of all sort of other sex-related acts--adult incest, bestiality, prostitution, bigamy, polygamy, and so on. And that is the belief of the majority in a state that those acts are immoral and unacceptable.

    If that is no longer a good enough reason for the people of a state to exclude same-sex partners from their marriage laws, it will no longer be a good enough reason to prohibit these other acts, either. If it were unconstitutional to exclude same-sex partners from marriage laws, why would it not also be unconstitutional to continue to exclude partners who were more closely related by blood than some specified degree--i.e. partners in adult incest? You know--equal protection, and all that.

    The intellectual dishonesty--or maybe it is just lack of intellect--on display in many people who assert that something in the Constitution prohibits any state from excluding same-sex partners from its marriage laws is stunning. What they are desperate to deny is that declaring a constitutional right to same-sex marriage would remove the basis for laws against a wide range of other acts.

    These people want to have their pet activity declared a right, and then, once that's done, arbitrarily deny people the right to engage in public nudity, bestiality, public masturbation, adult incest, bigamy, polygamy and so on. It's funny to watch them try to cook up harmful consequences that legalizing these things would supposedly have, since that is the very thing they constantly accuse people who oppose declaring same-sex marriage a constitutional right of doing. I can't just see the would-be adulterers, nudists, bestialists, etc., furiously accusing everyone of bigotry for denying them their equal rights.
    I think SCOTUS, for once came up with the right question. What Harm is done? Incest, Polygamy etc there is a public harm that can be justifiably argued. SSM, when asked the 'what harm' question by Justice Thomas, the lead attorney for Prop 8 spluttered. It was a defining moment in legal history

    Ultimately the whole SSM issue is nothing to do with public good, policy or law. I's a 100% religious issue. Religion, like sex, should be a personal and private thing. Restricted to the home, and have no place whatsoever in 'public' policy.

    Our own morality and eternal soul are our own responsibility.
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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Not really, but here's my point. I will accept the majority vote on the topic on a national basis. Instead of this state by state crap, and 'yes' / 'no' bickering that costs taxpayer dollars and ties up the court system, let's just add a referendum on the national ballot. Why have someone 'legal' in one state, and illegal on another? Isn't that a bit stupid? And what of the tax consequences. We are one nation, not the European Union.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramercat View Post
    Not really, but here's my point. I will accept the majority vote on the topic on a national basis. Instead of this state by state crap, and 'yes' / 'no' bickering that costs taxpayer dollars and ties up the court system, let's just add a referendum on the national ballot. Why have someone 'legal' in one state, and illegal on another? Isn't that a bit stupid? And what of the tax consequences. We are one nation, not the European Union.
    A national referendum? Oh God, politicians hate those...no gerrymandered electoral districts to ensure a win, what a horrible concept! And 'hanging chads'...you ain't seen nothing yet. That would gum up (unfortunately) the legal system for years. Probably give Congress a good excuse to do even less than they already do, while they debate (I use that word loosely, more probably I should just the word shouting) the issue Ad Nauseum.

    So more political gridlock, bring the justice system to a grinding halt, and cost millions of $....yep probably gonna happen
    I support the right to keep and arm bears

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramercat View Post
    Not really, but here's my point. I will accept the majority vote on the topic on a national basis. Instead of this state by state crap, and 'yes' / 'no' bickering that costs taxpayer dollars and ties up the court system, let's just add a referendum on the national ballot. Why have someone 'legal' in one state, and illegal on another? Isn't that a bit stupid? And what of the tax consequences. We are one nation, not the European Union.
    Can we vote on your right to do something instead? I want to vote up or down on your right to get married.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramercat View Post
    Not really, but here's my point. I will accept the majority vote on the topic on a national basis. Instead of this state by state crap, and 'yes' / 'no' bickering that costs taxpayer dollars and ties up the court system, let's just add a referendum on the national ballot. Why have someone 'legal' in one state, and illegal on another? Isn't that a bit stupid? And what of the tax consequences. We are one nation, not the European Union.

    Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

    U.S. Code: Table of Contents | LII / Legal Information Institute



    1. The above links are to the United States Constitution and the subordinate United States Code - please point out any provisions which provide for national ballots on initiatives?


    2. Please enlighten us on any use of a National Ballot in the history of this country to use a ballot initiative to pass a law.




    Thank you in advance.

    >>>>

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonic View Post
    So I'll ask again. How does SSM affect the sanctity of YOUR marriage?

    Does your God have an 'all in, all out' clause? If thats the case we're all destined for Hell, since...hate to tell you this...only about 30% of the world is even Christian. Buddhists, Jews, Muslims...the list is endless believe in many things which would consider mortal sins.

    Does their very existent invalidate any of your beliefs, or affect the sanctity of your vows?
    That question has been answered over and over again in this thread...Do you lefties ever read the other posts or just throw **** up against the wall and hope something sticks.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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