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Thread: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?[W:667]

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    What is the 'C'?

    When people are sloppy with the language then some people try to divert. So if you talk about "marriage" or "same-sex marriage", they will often deflect to religious marriage. I tend to use "Civil Marriage" and "Same-sex Civil Marriage" (SSCM) in posts to ensure the basis is understood to be that which exists under civil law and not what a person's individual religious institution might think of Religious Marriage.


    Look back over the last few pages, event the the OP Title is " Do you support legalizing gay marriage?", that which exists under civil law - plenty of post deflecting to what their religious views of marriage are.


    >>>>

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    In my business ..no. I have however been politically taunted by some Gay customers. I blew it off as friendly ribbing since I've know these people for some time and they knew I was a Conservative.
    {Austin is Gay Lib ground zero)


    You live in Austin/Austin area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    It can't be long before a militant nudism movement arises, inspired by other strident grievance groups to demand their rights. I can just see them shrieking angrily at "xtian haters" who want to deny them the right to go nude in public, just because they feel ashamed of sex and nudity and want to force their puritanical, xtian beliefs on everyone else. "Take your god-based bull and shove it--you don't have the right to tell me and mine how to live!!!"


    .
    On the news tonite, apparently it is legal tonite to walk around naked in public in Kansas as long as it's not for the purpose of sexually-based gratification or acts.

    Huh...and yet, Kansas is still here, no militants, no great uprising, Hell didnt freeze over.....


    Walking around is fine, I just hope they dont sit anywhere.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I expect militant nudists will claim that just as with same-sex marriage, the state laws that frustrate them are arbitrary, because the government can't show how nudism hurts anyone. Even if public nudity is legal on certain beaches, etc., they will howl that their lifestyle deserves to be recognized everywhere, just like the clothed lifestyle is. And even if their own state had made public nudity legal everywhere, it wouldn't be enough--they'd insist that it was a constitutional right, so that every other state had to legalize it, too.
    It's already legal in Kansas and apparently, very few people are attempting to shove it down anyone's throat or impose it on others. The 'naked lifestyle' seems to be fairly restrained...and no one...the 'nekkids'...apparently are not trying to force it on anyone else and dont have a 'nekkid agenda.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely, just as there are laws that limit speech such as slander. The Equal Protection Clause is not a universal statement that the government cannot discriminate. The government absolutely CAN discriminate, however it's discrimination must meet certian muster depending on who it's discriminating against, why it's discriminating, and to what end it's discriminating.

    GENDER discrimination however has a long held standing within the legal system as to the criteria applied to it via the EPC



    You are correct in that I was using the "intermediate" standard of review, as historically has been the case as it relates to gender discrimination.



    This is patentedly untrue. It absolutely does discriminate against someone on the basis of their sex/gender.

    A man is legally able to marry a woman.

    A woman is not legally able to marry a woman.

    A man, UNDER THE LAW, has the ability to do something that a woman does not do.

    For that to be constitutional it would need to be substantially related to serving an important state interest. Same goes for the fact that a woman, under the law, has the ability to do something that a man does not in regards to marrying a man.

    It also relates to the fact that one gender is discriminated against in the fulfilling of the state marriage contract.

    And it's easily proven (in the states' interests) that the benefits and legal protections of marriage protect the children of those marriages....it's used as a reason to support the institution of marriage in general....it protects kids of gay families just as much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    On the news tonite, apparently it is legal tonite to walk around naked in public in Kansas as long as it's not for the purpose of sexually-based gratification or acts.

    Huh...and yet, Kansas is still here, no militants, no great uprising, Hell didnt freeze over.....
    No one gives a damn what they want to do in their state--let them go around scaring the livestock if that makes their day. I don't get to Kansas often, and I don't have to look at them. But suppose the people who pushed for this weren't satisfied with just Kansas?

    What if they were strident crusaders who were determined to force their views on everyone else, so that they wouldn't feel like the deviants they are? What if they tried the homosexuals' tack and constantly shrieked to anyone who would listen that allstate laws against nudism are unconstitutional, because they are motivated by nothing but naked hostility (couldn't resist) toward nudists--and therefore there they don't promote any legitimate government interest?

    Walking around is fine, I just hope they dont sit anywhere.....
    Point well taken.
    Last edited by matchlight; 08-26-14 at 11:30 PM.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    No one gives a damn what they want to do in their state--let them go around scaring the livestock if that makes their day. I don't get to Kansas often, and I don't have to look at them. But suppose the people who pushed for this weren't satisfied with just Kansas? What if they were strident crusaders who constantly shrieked to anyone who would listen that state laws against nudism are unconstitutional, because they are motivated by nothing but naked hostility (couldn't resist) toward nudists?

    Point well taken.
    I would think the strident crusaders would looses unless they come up with a compelling Constitutional reason. It takes more than the motivation for the law to get a court to rule on it.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I would think the strident crusaders would looses unless they come up with a compelling Constitutional reason. It takes more than the motivation for the law to get a court to rule on it.
    The nudists wouldn't need any compelling constitutional reason, if they followed the same-sex marriage playbook. They could just claim that state laws against public nudism were not rationally related to any legitimate purpose of government. That's the basic standard the Supreme Court applies under its so-called "rational basis review."

    If a party challenging a state law on Fourteenth Amendment due process or equal protection grounds can show that the law does not meet this standard, the law will be unconstitutional. The reasoning behind this is that purely arbitrary laws are not laws at all. It at least has to be conceivable that the legislature that passed a law might have thought it was a reasonable way to achieve some legitimate purpose of government.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The nudists wouldn't need any compelling constitutional reason, if they followed the same-sex marriage playbook. They could just claim that state laws against public nudism were not rationally related to any legitimate purpose of government. That's the basic standard the Supreme Court applies under its so-called "rational basis review."

    If a party challenging a state law on Fourteenth Amendment due process or equal protection grounds can show that the law does not meet this standard, the law will be unconstitutional. The reasoning behind this is that purely arbitrary laws are not laws at all. It at least has to be conceivable that the legislature that passed a law might have thought it was a reasonable way to achieve some legitimate purpose of government.
    Nope, that is not all that we are doing, it is merely one part. The two situations are so disimlar that NONE of the core arguments for SSM could be used for public nudity.

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    Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Keep you sex life out the the public sphere. Quit insisting on tarnishing traditional marriage. Quit imposing on private business. Quit lobbying for rights that don't exist. Quit trying to recruit our children into your ideology.
    Keep your religion out of the public sphere. Stop discriminating against others. Stop interfering with private business. Stop trying to prevent people from lobbying for rights that don't exist. Stop trying to recruit our children into your religious extremism.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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