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Thread: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Good.

    I don't think any company should pay corporate/business taxes.

    It's pointless anyway, they just pass it on to the consumer anyway (though I imagine big government lovers think that they don't and the Business Fairy comes along and gives these companies back all the monies they gave to the government in taxes).

    That's not true, or certainly is RARELY true. And it's not big government lovers who don't buy the idea that corporations just raise prices to offset all income taxes - it's anyone with a decent grasp of economics 101.

    Taxes are paid 1) by consumers through higher prices, 2) by owners through lower after tax profits, AND/OR by 3) employees and executives through lower pay and/or bonuses. And where they fall, and in what combination, depends on all kinds of factors. It would almost NEVER be the case that a business could just take its income tax bill and then direct the marketing department to increase prices by the amount needed to net that income tax bill to zero. Econ 101 tells us that's just not how prices get set in a competitive marketplace.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    shrug...

    Who says they have to be charged a 4% tax?

    Hell...who says ANYONE has to be charged a 4% tax?

    You got any more strawmen?
    It's not the rate that is important. The fact is a gross receipts tax will hit high volume, low margin businesses far harder than those businesses that make similar profits, but on a fraction of the sales. It's neither necessarily better nor worse, just different and it depends on what you think the basis for tax should be.

    Let's say Grocery Chain sells $1 billion worth of goods at a 1% margin to clear $10 million in gross profit. At 2% gross receipts tax they'd pay $20 million in tax.

    Seller of yachts might only need $50 million in sales to clear $10 million in gross profit. At 2% GRT, they'd pay $1 million in tax. Same profit from sales of goods, but radically different effective tax rates. That's fine, and receipts might very well be a better basis to allocate the cost of government than profits, but that's the issue. Another issue is a company losing money still pays the tax, even during loss years, because profits aren't considered when levying the tax.

    The biggest problem with them is let's say you have a grocery chain, and it sells crackers. Well, there is a GRT when the farmer buys fertilizer and fuel, etc. and another when the farmer sells wheat to a milling company, another when the milling company sells flour to a baker, when the baker sells to a distributor and when the distributor sells to grocery chain, and a final GRT when the grocery sells to the consumer. So the obvious strategy is for the grocery chain to vertically integrate and buy up the supply chain to the extent it can, and grow its own wheat, mill the flour, bake the crackers, etc. And then there is only ONE GRT - at the final sale.

    It's why when countries want to go to a tax on consumption tax - and a GRT operates like a consumption tax - almost all industrialized countries have gone to a VAT that grants credits for VAT paid earlier in the supply chain. So long as credits offset previous taxes paid, there is no advantage to vertical integration. And ultimately the VAT is 'paid' at the point of final consumption, because the consumer cannot claim credits for previous VAT paid. Doesn't mean the consumer bears the entire tax - it could be that the selling price has to be reduced to move product that includes the VAT in it - but that is where the final tax is nominally paid.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The idea of a flat tax with no deductions just proves that some people don't have a clue how business and the tax system work.

    They actually really believe that if I sell something for $2.00 and it cost me $1.99 to produce, I should pay taxes on the whole $2.00
    We should just eliminate income taxes and switch to consumption based sales taxes.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    We should just eliminate income taxes and switch to consumption based sales taxes.
    If you like consumption taxes, a VAT works better in practice, which is why nearly all national consumption taxes around the world take the form of a VAT. The biggest problem here is it would upend all the state sales tax systems, and require the states to also go to a VAT, probably with a uniform nationwide VAT tax base, which is definitely not the case with the sales tax.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you like consumption taxes, a VAT works better in practice, which is why nearly all national consumption taxes around the world take the form of a VAT. The biggest problem here is it would upend all the state sales tax systems, and require the states to also go to a VAT, probably with a uniform nationwide VAT tax base, which is definitely not the case with the sales tax.
    No, I don't like a VAT. It taxes every step of production, since it is a "value added" tax. We should just tax the end result value.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You have significantly reduced personal liability.

    Tell me why a sole proprietor should have total liability and 1 level of taxation and a corporation had very limited liability and 1 level of taxation.

    Not that I think you understand this topic at all.
    Now you show your ignorance. A sole proprietor is stupid, that's way. They has a choice to be a sole proprietor or form an LLC or a "S" corp, which puts them on the same level as a corporation. But I see you don't know the difference. In fact an LLC or a "S" corp is not double taxed as a corporation. Now tell me why LLC's and S corps are not double taxed and the shareholders of corporations are.
    Last edited by Born Free; 08-15-14 at 12:06 PM.
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Companies leave for a variety of reasons and companies move to the US for a variety of reasons. Until you demonstrate you know the difference between effective and statutory, there is frankly no reason to put any value in what you say here.
    Yeah and your anointed one is bitching about companies leaving because of high taxes, maybe you should try and educate your beloved Obama. Tell him companies leave for a variety of reasons and then tell him to stop bitching.

    Do you have anything other than partisan vomit to the hide the fact you literally don't understand what I'm talking about?
    The vomit you speak of is Obama's, he's the one going around bitching about companies leaving and not paying their fair share of taxes. For me they should leave until we change the tax law to "0" for corporations. Of course liberals don't understand that the shareholders of corporations are double taxed.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    No, I don't like a VAT. It taxes every step of production, since it is a "value added" tax. We should just tax the end result value.
    Almost all of them in practice provide a credit for previous VAT paid. I could go into the details, available here, but the effect of a credit invoice VAT is to just tax the last sale to the final consumer. The VAT paid during production is also rebated at the point of export, so exports don't have any imbedded VAT in the price.

    And our current sales tax (RST) taxes all kinds of business inputs. By some estimates, businesses pay about 40% of all RST, and when those products are exported, there is no way to rebate the embedded RST in the cost of that good so it makes U.S. produced goods more expensive overseas than they'd be with a VAT.

    There's more, but if you want to tax final consumption only, a VAT works better in practice.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Almost all of them in practice provide a credit for previous VAT paid. I could go into the details, available here, but the effect of a credit invoice VAT is to just tax the last sale to the final consumer. The VAT paid during production is also rebated at the point of export, so exports don't have any imbedded VAT in the price.

    And our current sales tax (RST) taxes all kinds of business inputs. By some estimates, businesses pay about 40% of all RST, and when those products are exported, there is no way to rebate the embedded RST in the cost of that good so it makes U.S. produced goods more expensive overseas than they'd be with a VAT.

    There's more, but if you want to tax final consumption only, a VAT works better in practice.
    So, as most of us want to simplify the tax code, you want to keep it complex?

    No Thanks.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-in...145353359.html

    "Merck, the second largest pharmaceutical company in the U.S., actually had a negative effective tax rate of 7.5% during the second quarter, which means it got a tax credit. Eight of the 20 companies were in real estate or real estate-related businesses."

    Looks like the "job creator's" are overtaxed.
    Well that means they should have like infinity jobs because corporate tax rate is inversely proportional to job creation.
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