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Thread: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

  1. #121
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Shipping costs are immaterial.

    OK...

    LOL...

    LOL...

    LOL...

    I'm done with this argument with you.

    It's pointless.

    You are blind to facts. You already are determined to think one way, and facts will not change your mind.

    Shipping costs immaterial...

    LOL...

    LOL...

    LOL...
    Says the guy who thinks that a 3% tax differential somehow equates to a 75% labor pricing difference.

    I'm the blind one?

    Well, that proves you don't get this topic at all. Also notice I was talking about the shipping cost differentials between Vietnam and China as well as the cost of shipping verse labor. Not that shipping costs are immaterial as a whole.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #122
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Says the guy who thinks that a 3% tax differential somehow equates to a 75% labor pricing difference.
    I consider it rather rude to misrepresent my point.

    Are you being intellectually dishonest, ignorant, or stupid I must wonder.

  3. #123
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Suggested reading for anyone wanting to take the time:

    http://www.bcg.com/documents/file84471.pdf

  4. #124
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I consider it rather rude to misrepresent my point.

    Are you being intellectually dishonest, ignorant, or stupid I must wonder.
    See your own post where you flat out lied about what I wrote. I contend that taxes and labor costs have frankly very little to do with each other.

    As for your BCG, the reason manufacturing will partially return to the US is not because of shipping costs. It is because of delays and rising labor costs elsewhere. When you have to fly to Shenzen from Cleveland to fix a problem rather than flying to say, Chicago, that adds a huge amount of costs and time into your equation. Several smaller firms have already relocated back to the US because the time to fix something in China is obscene. The changes often range from a few weeks to a few months where a US manufacturer could have the new designs in a day or two. This has literally nothing to do with taxes. And when you add in the rising labor costs world wide, the total cost differential between foreign and US becomes manageable. Furthermore, outsourcing always runs the risk of creating a competitor. At least in the US, we respect the IP laws. There is a reason why the fake luxury bags have become at times identical to the real ones. The plant you build them in knows where to get your materials and how to build them. They simply start their own with the same machines, same suppliers at a fraction of the cost. Teach them to make your product well and they'll make it themselves.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #125
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    See your own post where you flat out lied about what I wrote. I contend that taxes and labor costs have frankly very little to do with each other.
    I disagree with you. Taxes are a huge factor. Our marginal rate is 35% for US corporations, and that doesn't include their taxes to the states they operate in.

    Labor costs are generally under 20% of an items cost. Not always, it depends on the item.

    I contend that for many or most items, shipping costs outweigh the difference in labor costs when only shipping state to state, vs shipping to a US port and then state to state as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    As for your BCG, the reason manufacturing will partially return to the US is not because of shipping costs. It is because of delays and rising labor costs elsewhere.
    The article mentions both.

    Your example of a few cents probably applies to small toys, where you have hundreds in a cubic foot. Overseas shipping in large volume is primary paid for by volume. As the size of the items increase, so does the cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    When you have to fly to Shenzen from Cleveland to fix a problem rather than flying to say, Chicago, that adds a huge amount of costs and time into your equation. Several smaller firms have already relocated back to the US because the time to fix something in China is obscene.
    Sure. One of several factors. For one thing, unless they are shipping large volumes, they don't get as good of a shipping price to offset these other costs and time they incur.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The changes often range from a few weeks to a few months where a US manufacturer could have the new designs in a day or two. This has literally nothing to do with taxes.
    That's because the taxes are relatively static between the two systems.

    And when you add in the rising labor costs world wide, the total cost differential between foreign and US becomes manageable. Furthermore, outsourcing always runs the risk of creating a competitor. At least in the US, we respect the IP laws. There is a reason why the fake luxury bags have become at times identical to the real ones. The plant you build them in knows where to get your materials and how to build them. They simply start their own with the same machines, same suppliers at a fraction of the cost. Teach them to make your product well and they'll make it themselves.
    I don't believe you simply cannot acknowledge that the differing tax structures are a factor in the cost analysis.

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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I disagree with you. Taxes are a huge factor. Our marginal rate is 35% for US corporations, and that doesn't include their taxes to the states they operate in.
    Wrong. 35% is the top statutory rate. Marginal is what is paid on every additional dollar and dramatically changes based on a taxpayer's situation. Effective, as what corporations actually pay is about 12.5%. You, like Born don't know the difference.

    Labor costs are generally under 20% of an items cost. Not always, it depends on the item.

    I contend that for many or most items, shipping costs outweigh the difference in labor costs when only shipping state to state, vs shipping to a US port and then state to state as well.
    That does absolutely nothing to deal with my argument about why Vietnam is taking China's manufacturing jobs when the cost to relocate is massive and the tax difference is pathetic 3%. You are not dealing with this argument at all. You aren't even trying. Which suggests you do not understand the topic at hand.

    Furthermore, you are ignoring how other developed states with much lower taxes than the US have comparable labor costs. You flat out ignored this.

    The article mentions both.

    Your example of a few cents probably applies to small toys, where you have hundreds in a cubic foot. Overseas shipping in large volume is primary paid for by volume. As the size of the items increase, so does the cost.
    But those associated items generally sell for significantly more. Alternative, the cost to ship an iPhone to America is very cheap per phone.

    I don't believe you simply cannot acknowledge that the differing tax structures are a factor in the cost analysis.
    I do, but I think they are largely overblown to suit political agendas. You are ignoring both of my examples because you know they prove you wrong.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #127
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That does absolutely nothing to deal with my argument about why Vietnam is taking China's manufacturing jobs when the cost to relocate is massive and the tax difference is pathetic 3%. You are not dealing with this argument at all. You aren't even trying. Which suggests you do not understand the topic at hand.
    Right.

    It has nothing to do with it.

    I don't care of it is China, Vietnam, etc. You are trying to change the argument we started with because you cannot win it, so you deflecting to an argument you think you can win.

    I acknowledges that small changes like the 3% is meaningful when all else is equal. Why do you refuse to acknowledge the other factors that matter.

  8. #128
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    No it doesn't. An LLC or S-corp come with various limitations as how they can raise money compared to a C-Corp not to mention how certain asset classes are treated and how certain items are taxed. They are not "on the same level as a corporation." Furthermore, neither of them offer the identical level of limited liability a C-Corp has. It is FAR easier to pierce the veil of a S/LLC than it is a C-Corp. Furthermore, you utterly failed to address my point. Why should a sole proprietor have the same level of taxation as a C-Corp but the C-Corp gets limited liability? I suspect you won't answer this. You've already run away from it.
    Why should a sole proprietor have the same level of taxation as a C-Cop, are you serious, I thought you are an accountant. For an account you have no clue, a sole proprietor is only taxed once and a C corp is taxed twice, once at the corporate level and then again when it gives dividends to it's shareholders that own the company. So the question you asked is false, I should not even be wasting my time with someone that has no clue what your talking about.

    Second you say a C-corp has only limited liability, of course where as a sole proprietor has no shield against liability. But I'm sure you as a so called accountent would advise a person that a sole proprietor is just fine compared to filling as an LLC where there is limited liability.


    Please refrain from talking about topics you do not understand.
    Your just full of yourself.
    Tell me, have you passed the 4 part CPA test and done the necessary hours to get certified by your state board? I suspect not.
    They call that Bloating or is it bloviating, in any event you are just full of yourself. Let me ask you how many corporations have you owned were you were the majority shareholder and the CEO, we're talking C corps, and then tell me how many LLC have you owned and S corps that you were the majority partner. I mean these are the guys that make the money, not one that is hired to count it.

    S-Corps and LLCs are not "double taxed' as C-Corps, but they do not share the same level of capital raising benefits as well as the C-Corp's level of limited liability.
    Once again you have no clue, an LLC can raise millions to start a business, even billions. S corps the same way.

    Why are you so afraid to answer my question?
    I have answered all your questions but it is you that have not answered mine. I understand you have no real business experience as a majority shareholder of any corporation or any business experience other than being a bean counter, so you say, but you could never convince me of that.

    You claim the be the bean counter of this board. If true you have no clue and would suggest you resign.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  9. #129
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    For an account you have no clue, a sole proprietor is only taxed once and a C corp is taxed twice, once at the corporate level and then again when it gives dividends to it's shareholders that own the company.
    Corps are not taxed twice. They aren't taxed on dividends; the shareholders that receive the dividends are taxed

    Corps are taxed once.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #130
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    Re: 20 U.S. companies that paid 0% in taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I understand the difference between effective and statutory rates. You have DEMONSTRATED you do not.
    Maybe this will help you understand. You have shown no knowledge owning a corporation, LLC, or a S corp. Your a bean counter so you say, but you could never prove that by me.

    What are statutory and effective corporate tax rates?

    Now tell me how many C-corps you have owned and were the CEO, same for LLC, and S-corps. Never mind, I already know the answer, NONE.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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