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Lawyer: Police Haven't Talked To Michael Brown Shooting Witness

Well, the guy shot graduated from HS, was on his way to college, and by all accounts (so far) was a good kid, who had no criminal record. So he wasn't a thug, and got killed. That's the reason for the protests.

Why did he go for the cop's gun, if he was such a great kid?
 
Don't be a black kid walking down the street when a cop is driving by looking for trouble.

If there weren't so nany black thugs, it wouldn't happen nearly as much.
 
I'm going to quit discussing the whole "thug" thing - you've made your point. Young black guys who don't talk correctly = thugs. Got it.

Nice assumption. No, I think young folks of any color or shape who disregard and shine on police, who throw gang signs in photos, who are willing to struggle with the police are presumptive thugs. But it's interesting that your mind works that way, going to race first.

But do you really expect a person to stay around and try to 'defuse the situation' after a cop has shot your friend in the chest? How does that work? "Excuse me Mr. Policeman, but I would sure rather you quit shooting my friend in the chest. We wish you no harm, sir, and my friend might expire should you persist in your shooting of him.

Please note my raised arms, and if you would kindly stop shooting, we will be on our way to the Emergency Room. We would be ever so grateful if you would ring 911 and request the good folks there to dispatch an ambulance to this scene, post haste! Have a good day, old chap!"

How about, sorry officer, we'll leave the street immediately. And then later, quit fighting dude, stay still and let the officer do his thing. And then, don't run, just get down on your belly and I'll call 911. Or how about keep reminding your buddy and the officer that you are unarmed and really don't want trouble. Hell, just anything but abandoning your buddy.

Or it could be the truth.

Could be, not likely from what we know thus far, but could be.
 
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Why did he go for the cop's gun, if he was such a great kid?

Y'know at some point, we should have the right to self-defense even against cops. IF what I've read of the eyewitness accounts are correct, the cops were way out of line, being physically violent against what at this time seems to be for no reason. We don't know if the cop took his gun out and was threatening with it, and the kid tried to get it for a reason like that????

I'm not saying any of it is true, what I'm saying is that if you can't imagine a potential reason why you might try to disarm an overly aggressive cop in your face, then all the bluster about your 2nd amendment rights and right to self-defense and SYG (even through screen doors or into the backs of fleeing robbers, iirc) is just that... bluster.
 
Well, the guy shot graduated from HS, was on his way to college, and by all accounts (so far) was a good kid, who had no criminal record. So he wasn't a thug, and got killed. That's the reason for the protests.

And there we have the little angel picture being written. This same little angel was fighting with the police.
 
And there we have the little angel picture being written. This same little angel was fighting with the police.

We don't yet know the circumstances of the altercation, so I'll hold off forming any opinion until something at least comes out that's legitimate.
 
Y'know at some point, we should have the right to self-defense even against cops. IF what I've read of the eyewitness accounts are correct, the cops were way out of line, being physically violent against what at this time seems to be for no reason. We don't know if the cop took his gun out and was threatening with it, and the kid tried to get it for a reason like that????

I'm not saying any of it is true, what I'm saying is that if you can't imagine a potential reason why you might try to disarm an overly aggressive cop in your face, then all the bluster about your 2nd amendment rights and right to self-defense (even through screen doors or into the backs of fleeing robbers, iirc) is just that... bluster.

No, you don't get to do that. Get real!

Aren't you one of the folks that think Bundy supporters should all be executed?
 
Nice try, forgotten what you posted and I quoted?

You misread my point. You blamed Brown for running away. Well, the sequence is this - 1) he got shot in the chest by the cop and then, 2) ran away. Well, what is the standard reaction after you get shot in the chest? Stand there and hope you don't get shot a second time? Reason with the shooter? Maybe that would have been the better option, but it seems a bit much to expect someone to do that, doesn't it?

You just can't stop assuming and getting it wrong can you? You're so guilty about race (see, that's how that assuming thing works) you think that's why I believe he's a thug or why he's been coached. I invoked Sharpton because he's a clear example of the coaching that happens in these situations.

You make it difficult to assume anything other than it is about race because you've made sweeping assumptions about their character with no other basis than how they look or talk. And I know why you invoked Sharpton, or can connect the dots, because he was famously involved in a case where the 'victim' lied - Tawana Brawley. So it's a clear attempt to further impugn the character of Johnson who you called a 'thug' in post one.

And Sharpton is ONE extreme and very infamous example of the 'coaching' that happens in a tiny sliver of "these situations" (whatever 'these situations' means). If you invoke him, you invite people to assume the worst, that the witness (Johnson) is lying until proven otherwise.
 
Y'know at some point, we should have the right to self-defense even against cops. IF what I've read of the eyewitness accounts are correct, the cops were way out of line, being physically violent against what at this time seems to be for no reason. We don't know if the cop took his gun out and was threatening with it, and the kid tried to get it for a reason like that????

I'm not saying any of it is true, what I'm saying is that if you can't imagine a potential reason why you might try to disarm an overly aggressive cop in your face, then all the bluster about your 2nd amendment rights and right to self-defense and SYG (even through screen doors or into the backs of fleeing robbers, iirc) is just that... bluster.

No, for two reasons. One, the average citizen really doesn't know the law, just what they think the law should be - most folks can't adequately describe legal self defense. Two, it's the way to ensure you will be dead.
 
And there we have the little angel picture being written. This same little angel was fighting with the police.

It's pretty funny - you think the cop murdered Brown, but at the same time blame Brown for getting in a fight with this murderous cop. Don't you see the least bit of disconnect there?

BTW, if you have any evidence he wasn't a basically good kid, show it. What crimes had he been charged or convicted of? How many encounters with police prior to this incident? He WAS enrolled in college, by all accounts, and due to start classes in a few days. Do you disagree?
 
No, you don't get to do that. Get real!

Aren't you one of the folks that think Bundy supporters should all be executed?

No, not at all. I'm a rational gun advocate. Own 'em and CCW'd where I could. Sorry, but you're fos if you claim to be all for SYG and self-defense and shoot 'em through a door and shoot 'em in the back, if you don't also see and recognize that sometimes the person you need to SYG against, particularly if you're walking while black, is a police officer. Seems all your "gang" of gun NUTTERS (not us normal, sensible gun advocates) regularly and proudly become belligerent against local, state, and federal LEOs, you mention one of the stupidest...Bundy.

Apparently you only think white armed nutters have a right to consider self-defense against authorities, but innocent black teens walking down a street unarmed, not so much.
 
No, for two reasons. One, the average citizen really doesn't know the law, just what they think the law should be - most folks can't adequately describe legal self defense. Two, it's the way to ensure you will be dead.

And yet, aren't you one of the ones that was advocating the arrest if not immediate murder of any federal LEOs that might fire upon or hinder in anyway the Bundy gang of nutters? Hmm, how do you square that?
 
No, not at all. I'm a rational gun advocate. Own 'em and CCW'd where I could. Sorry, but you're fos if you claim to be all for SYG and self-defense and shoot 'em through a door and shoot 'em in the back, if you don't also see and recognize that sometimes the person you need to SYG against, particularly if you're walking while black, is a police officer. Seems all your "gang" of gun NUTTERS (not us normal, sensible gun advocates) regularly and proudly become belligerent against local, state, and federal LEOs, you mention one of the stupidest...Bundy.

Apparently you only think white armed nutters have a right to consider self-defense against authorities, but innocent black teens walking down a street unarmed, not so much.

You don't get to take a cop's gun. It don't work that way. Join us here on planet Earth.
 
And yet, aren't you one of the ones that was advocating the arrest if not immediate murder of any federal LEOs that might fire upon or hinder in anyway the Bundy gang of nutters? Hmm, how do you square that?

No he wasn't, nor was I. Nice try, though.
 
You misread my point. You blamed Brown for running away. Well, the sequence is this - 1) he got shot in the chest by the cop and then, 2) ran away. Well, what is the standard reaction after you get shot in the chest? Stand there and hope you don't get shot a second time? Reason with the shooter? Maybe that would have been the better option, but it seems a bit much to expect someone to do that, doesn't it?

Okay, I likely misread your post. As for the rest of that diatribe, it's an absurd strawman without context (like if a police officer is the one who shot you) and detail.


You make it difficult to assume anything other than it is about race because you've made sweeping assumptions about their character with no other basis than how they look or talk. And I know why you invoked Sharpton, or can connect the dots, because he was famously involved in a case where the 'victim' lied - Tawana Brawley. So it's a clear attempt to further impugn the character of Johnson who you called a 'thug' in post one.

Only for you, I judge him thug because of his look AND his actions. His speech was just fine, as I stated he came off as a professional talking head. Sharpton has been involved as coach in a string of incidents, it's what he does if there's race issues to be stirred.

And Sharpton is ONE extreme and very infamous example of the 'coaching' that happens in a tiny sliver of "these situations" (whatever 'these situations' means). If you invoke him, you invite people to assume the worst, that the witness (Johnson) is lying until proven otherwise.

Yes, there are others who do the same thing as Sharpton. However, they don't have the name recognition. And that you assumed the worst is all on you.
 
Why did he go for the cop's gun, if he was such a great kid?

We don't know that he did - the guy who (allegedly) shot him in the back as he was running away, then again after he reportedly turned around with his hands up, said he did. It might be true, but we don't know that at this point.

And there is nothing in the record that I've seen to indicate anything other than he WAS a good kid.
 
It's pretty funny - you think the cop murdered Brown, but at the same time blame Brown for getting in a fight with this murderous cop. Don't you see the least bit of disconnect there?

No, that you do speaks volumes. The cop wasn't "murderous" when Brown got in a fight with him.

BTW, if you have any evidence he wasn't a basically good kid, show it. What crimes had he been charged or convicted of? How many encounters with police prior to this incident? He WAS enrolled in college, by all accounts, and due to start classes in a few days. Do you disagree?

A good kid, especially one used to a neighborhood where you know the cops are tough isn't going to defy officers, try to shine them on. A good kid isn't going to fight with the officer. A good kid isn't going to do any of what Brown did in this situation.

Being enrolled in college isn't some certificate of goodness, non-thuggery.
 
Okay, I likely misread your post. As for the rest of that diatribe, it's an absurd strawman without context (like if a police officer is the one who shot you) and detail.

The point is he'd just been shot. He's in a panic, flight or fight, it's wired into our DNA, no time to reason. If you want to blame him for running after that, you're just wanting a reason to blame Brown because the other instinct is to attack the person shooting you - he didn't do that.

Only for you, I judge him thug because of his look AND his actions. His speech was just fine, as I stated he came off as a professional talking head. Sharpton has been involved as coach in a string of incidents, it's what he does if there's race issues to be stirred.

Which actions? Not sticking around after the cop starts shooting at them? Calmly reasoning with the police in the middle of a shooting? Right, I forgot..... And you assume Johnson is stirring race issues, not speaking the truth, but he's not a liar, just a thug.

Yes, there are others who do the same thing as Sharpton. However, they don't have the name recognition. And that you assumed the worst is all on you.

Right, because you think Johnson is a thug, but not lying, just getting coached, by the likes of a known race hustler, to stir a racial pot, etc. Can't believe I've made assumptions...
 
And yet, aren't you one of the ones that was advocating the arrest if not immediate murder of any federal LEOs that might fire upon or hinder in anyway the Bundy gang of nutters? Hmm, how do you square that?

Nope, don't know who you're thinking of, but it aint me.
 
No, that you do speaks volumes. The cop wasn't "murderous" when Brown got in a fight with him.

The cop, according to you, shot an unarmed, defenseless person with his arms raised in surrender. He's a murderous person, irrational.

A good kid, especially one used to a neighborhood where you know the cops are tough isn't going to defy officers, try to shine them on. A good kid isn't going to fight with the officer. A good kid isn't going to do any of what Brown did in this situation.

Right, because we all know right wingers believe the proper response to the police is meek and immediate acceptance of their proper unquestioned authority.

"I'll give them my guns when when the federal agents come to my house and ask for them, immediately, with no protest." I think that's a good rendering of the famous quote?

Being enrolled in college isn't some certificate of goodness, non-thuggery.

True, but there is no other evidence he had a history of being a thug. Goodness....
 
The point is he'd just been shot. He's in a panic, flight or fight, it's wired into our DNA, no time to reason. If you want to blame him for running after that, you're just wanting a reason to blame Brown because the other instinct is to attack the person shooting you - he didn't do that.

Fair enough, do you apply that same consideration to every shooting?

Which actions? Not sticking around after the cop starts shooting at them? Calmly reasoning with the police in the middle of a shooting? Right, I forgot..... And you assume Johnson is stirring race issues, not speaking the truth, but he's not a liar, just a thug.

Asked and answered.

Right, because you think Johnson is a thug, but not lying, just getting coached, by the likes of a known race hustler, to stir a racial pot, etc. Can't believe I've made assumptions...

Me neither, thanks for the insight into the mind of someone who goes to blaming race first.
 
Me neither, thanks for the insight into the mind of someone who goes to blaming race first.

This is your quote: "Sharpton has been involved as coach in a string of incidents, it's what he does if there's race issues to be stirred."

So, you said Johnson had obviously been coached, and then brought up Sharpton, because you do NOT believe Johnson is stirring race issues? So what was the point of bringing up coaching and Sharpton?
 
Nice assumption. No, I think young folks of any color or shape who disregard and shine on police, who throw gang signs in photos, who are willing to struggle with the police are presumptive thugs. But it's interesting that your mind works that way, going to race first.



How about, sorry officer, we'll leave the street immediately. And then later, quit fighting dude, stay still and let the officer do his thing. And then, don't run, just get down on your belly and I'll call 911. Or how about keep reminding your buddy and the officer that you are unarmed and really don't want trouble. Hell, just anything but abandoning your buddy.



Could be, not likely from what we know thus far, but could be.

How is putting up a PEACE hand sign comparable to "throwing up gang signs"?
 
And there we have the little angel picture being written. This same little angel was fighting with the police.
I think I rather trust a black kid who has a positive outlook on life and is ready to go to college than some cop that has been writing reports and learning how to cover his own ass his whole carrer. I think I trust the non-tainted and jaded. Ive seen cops pad reports first hand. Havent you seen stories of DUI people proving their innocence when a cop is at fault for a car accident only to be ignored?

It just seems more likely the cop was an asshole and wanted to kill someone. So he hit him with his door then tried to pull him into the car just so he can shoot him. Why would this kid with zero record be leaping into the cop car? It just doesnt make sense that way. Ive seen videos of cops shooting a surrendered "suspect". This cop prolly thought he was getting ignored/snubbed by a gangster and he ended up picking on good citizen who is willing to try to get away from danger, once he recognized teh cop was coercing him, until he was scared to death and then finished off.

Its sad that we live in a world where you trust average joe's testimony more than a cop's. But in this case the witness has NOTHING to gain and the cop has EVERYTHING to lose. Cops have an entire lifelong carreer to worry about with pension at the end. I wouldn't trust a single thing they said unless the event was captured and recorded.

Every single cop needs a gun that takes pictures as it fires and a helmet cam that always captures what they are looking at. Anything less is insanity and negligence from the top down.
 
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