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Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In The

Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
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Do you have any idea how incredibly hard that is? No, aim for the torso.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

rhinefire said:
Recently a woman was awarded 23.6 Billion dollars because her stupid husband smoked himself to death at 36 years of age. Why can't we sue the manufacturers of toys that look exactly like real guns from up close to far away. Why is it critical to a 6 year old the toy has to look like the real deal and people get killed flashing them to police?
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What 6 year old? This guy was 22.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

WCH said:
I do have an issue with the authentic look of these guns, [including the air-soft ones] They should all have the orange indicator tip. Looking down the barrel of a .22 caliber pellet rifle is not any different than doing the same with an AR-15 .223.

FWIW, it is possible to kill or severely maim someone with a lead pellet depending on the spot of impact and power for the weapon.

If this guy was pointing it at customers, he was looking for suicide by cop.
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Pellet rifles can kill. It even says so on the box and in the paperwork. So meeting a pellet-wielding customer with a firearm is perfectly acceptable.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

If it can be confirmed that he was indeed pointing this "gun" at people then he earned himself a Darwin Award.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Jerry said:
Pellet rifles can kill. It even says so on the box and in the paperwork. So meeting a pellet-wielding customer with a firearm is perfectly acceptable.
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That's ridiculous. It is not illegal to hold a pellet gun.

Both the pig who shot him and the idiot who called 911 should be prosecuted.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Muhammed said:
That's ridiculous. It is not illegal to hold a pellet gun.
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Do us all a favor and go point a pellet gun at costomers and disobay the cops when they show up, before posting again.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Jerry said:
Do us all a favor and go point a pellet gun at costomers and disobay the cops when they show up, before posting again.
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:lamo

Sure, I'll do that as soon as you pass a remedial English class.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Paxaeon said:
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"On Wednesday, 22-year-old John Crawford was shot dead inside a Wal-Mart by police in Beavercreek, Ohio, after a shopper called 911 to report someone inside with a gun. Now, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine says the gun Crawford was carrying was a BB gun known as a variable pump air rifle — a target-shooting and small game-hunting gun made to look like a real, more deadly weapon.

The MK-177 Crosman BB/Pellet Rifle gun is stocked in the shelves at Wal-Mart, and relatives of Crawford’s say he wasn’t carrying any gun when he entered Wal-Mart. He reportedly picked up the gun in the toy section of the store. The store says it has since been told to remove the gun from its shelves.

Some witnesses say Crawford was pointing the gun at customers and children, and did not comply with police commands. But Crawford’s family has asked state civil rights groups including the NAACP to look into the shooting. Crawford was black." - Source - Screen shot​
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This is a tragic event but I do not blame the police in this.

First off, the race of the suspect is completely irrelevant. If the news story is correct, he was pointing a toy gun, made to look realistic, at people in the store. The police acted prudently.
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Lots of fishiness in this story. Perhaps its different in Ohio but here pellet rifles aren't kept in the childrens toy section. He was apparently pointing and therefore threatening people. 22 year olds know this.

He was either psych, on drugs, or this was a suicide by cop.

The silly "fix" from "thinkprogress" involves factors not related to this episode nor the airsoft AK replica case. The OP somehow can confidently claim race isn't involved here (fine, somehow she knows) but where will she be when the next minority is involved in a similar incidence?
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
Trained professionals should be capable of taking out a suspect without killing him/her. We are not talking about the average trigger happy Joe.
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And you know this how? What happens when the cops only have seconds to assess the scene? What if tazers and spray have failed?

"Should" isn't how life always works out, is it?

There is are multiple excellent quality video of a cop shooting where video clearly shows the cop trying every possible resolution before being attacked.

Things change fast.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Muhammed said:
:lamo

Sure, I'll do that as soon as you pass a remedial English class.
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Already don. And a few elective English classes in collage as well. You may want to educate yourself on both the informal nature on online forums and common problems with mobil apps people use to access them.

So happy gun-pointing :) Do let us know where to send the flowers.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
Trained professionals should be capable of taking out a suspect without killing him/her. We are not talking about the average trigger happy Joe.
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Ummmm, no. Trained professionals are capable of many things, I'd suggest you let the stress monkey climb on your back and then decide what can and can't be done in a deadly confrontation. There is abso-freakin-lutely zero guarantee a 'wound' shot will stop an attacker from continuing the attack. Using a firearm is by it's very definition deadly force, to attempt to use it as anything else is only going to get more LEO's killed, not to mention up the percentage of rounds carrying past the assailant to cause grief elsewhere.

The degree of marksmanship you are wanting is extremely difficult to achieve on a nice one way range with a stationary target. In a real world, you are putting your life on the line scenario- damn near impossible.

Perhaps the worse dis-service Hollywood does to LEOs are the steady fantasy scenes where the good guy can shoot a pistol out of another's hand from horse back, or 50 yards away, and then hit the pistol on the ground repeatedly.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Muhammed said:
Both the pig who shot him and the idiot who called 911 should be prosecuted.
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Seriously man....that's about THE most ignorant post I've seen in the past few weeks.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Dragonfly said:
Seriously man....that's about THE most ignorant post I've seen in the past few weeks.
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Could you explain why you feel that way?

The way I see it, some idiot called 911 because he saw someone holding a gun in a gun store. Having a gun in your hands is not unusual or anything to be alarmed about in a gun store, and it's certainly not illegal. Then the pig came in and shot the guy even though he had broken no laws, nor had he threatened anyone.

It's murder, plain and simple.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
Click to expand...




It's a nice thought, but it is not feasible.


There is no where you can shoot a human being that may not result in death; most locations that are less lethal are also less likely to stop someone.

Also, if they're shooting them PRESUMABLY it is because they appear to pose a deadly threat to someone. Half-assing that situation is a good way to die.



It's not practical. It's also a lot harder to target specific body parts in a real shooting incident than some might think.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Paxaeon said:
`
"On Wednesday, 22-year-old John Crawford was shot dead inside a Wal-Mart by police in Beavercreek, Ohio, after a shopper called 911 to report someone inside with a gun. Now, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine says the gun Crawford was carrying was a BB gun known as a variable pump air rifle — a target-shooting and small game-hunting gun made to look like a real, more deadly weapon.

The MK-177 Crosman BB/Pellet Rifle gun is stocked in the shelves at Wal-Mart, and relatives of Crawford’s say he wasn’t carrying any gun when he entered Wal-Mart. He reportedly picked up the gun in the toy section of the store. The store says it has since been told to remove the gun from its shelves.

Some witnesses say Crawford was pointing the gun at customers and children, and did not comply with police commands. But Crawford’s family has asked state civil rights groups including the NAACP to look into the shooting. Crawford was black." - Source - Screen shot​
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This is a tragic event but I do not blame the police in this.

First off, the race of the suspect is completely irrelevant. If the news story is correct, he was pointing a toy gun, made to look realistic, at people in the store. The police acted prudently.
`
Click to expand...

I owned one of those pellet guns as a teen. If you pump it up you can cause someone serious injury-maybe even fatal if you hit them in the eye or throat
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
Click to expand...

you don't know much about the subject do you? you have to shoot to stop. I am a very very good shot and I am not going to take the risk of shooting for an arm when someone is doing something that requires me to shoot him
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
Click to expand...
Cops are trained to shoot to stop, not try to wing someone in the arm or leg. Sounds to me like you have been lured out of realityland by Hollywood fiction.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Paxaeon said:
`
"On Wednesday, 22-year-old John Crawford was shot dead inside a Wal-Mart by police in Beavercreek, Ohio, after a shopper called 911 to report someone inside with a gun. Now, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine says the gun Crawford was carrying was a BB gun known as a variable pump air rifle — a target-shooting and small game-hunting gun made to look like a real, more deadly weapon.

The MK-177 Crosman BB/Pellet Rifle gun is stocked in the shelves at Wal-Mart, and relatives of Crawford’s say he wasn’t carrying any gun when he entered Wal-Mart. He reportedly picked up the gun in the toy section of the store. The store says it has since been told to remove the gun from its shelves.

Some witnesses say Crawford was pointing the gun at customers and children, and did not comply with police commands. But Crawford’s family has asked state civil rights groups including the NAACP to look into the shooting. Crawford was black." - Source - Screen shot​
`
`
`
This is a tragic event but I do not blame the police in this.

First off, the race of the suspect is completely irrelevant. If the news story is correct, he was pointing a toy gun, made to look realistic, at people in the store. The police acted prudently.
`
Click to expand...

How do you know about the realistic look of this BB gun?

Thank you for your blind support of police actions.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

SMTA said:
How do you know about the realistic look of this BB gun? Thank you for your blind support of police actions.
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If you would have actually read the article and checked the link for the Crosman MK-177 Tactical Air Rifle, it looks like a real gun to me...as did it to the customers at walmart whom he was pointing it at and unfortunately, the police. This was a tragic incident...don't compound it with your closed-minded naïveté. There are still, a lot of good cops out there....I hope.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Goshin said:
It's a nice thought, but it is not feasible.


There is no where you can shoot a human being that may not result in death; most locations that are less lethal are also less likely to stop someone.

Also, if they're shooting them PRESUMABLY it is because they appear to pose a deadly threat to someone. Half-assing that situation is a good way to die.



It's not practical. It's also a lot harder to target specific body parts in a real shooting incident than some might think.
Click to expand...

I realize all that. Perhaps my wishing it were different is being misunderstood, various of my comments indicate respect for law enforcement.
I am contemplating possible alternatives . In cases like this, it would be great if cops had training other than shoot to kill. Loss of life is permanent, people.
Not having been in the situation ourselves, not knowing all the facts, I don't understand how we can render judgment either way. I would like to see some footage. How close was the cop to that man? How erratic did he behave? According to his girlfriend, BB man had received a phone call prior to the incident and was just wandering around the toy section. Again, how often did the cop ask him to put down the gun? How threatening did he appear? How close was the cop to the gunman? Do we have any actual footage or are a few sentences in an article all we need to condemn the BB man?
When I target practice, I sometimes miss targets that are far, but never when they are right in front of me. Trying to picture WalMart aisles, the possibilities aren't that endless.
What about the other woman who got shot as she was trying to take her kids out of harm's way ( if I understood correctly)? Could that have been avoided if the cop had aimed lower?
How can we side one way or the other without having all the facts?
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

SMTA said:
How do you know about the realistic look of this BB gun?

Thank you for your blind support of police actions.
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Ummm.....I posted a picture....first page of posts in this thread. Post #3 to be specific. :mrgreen:

Dragonfly said:
If that quote is true, then the police are not at fault.

That's a big "if"...but highly significant no matter how you slice it.


0002847814136_500X500.jpg
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Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
Click to expand...

??????

Shoot to stop is precisely what they are trained to do not shoot to kill.

Although in most cases if you are shot in the chest it is likely to be fatal.

Shooting for the arms or legs only increases the threat and minimizes nothing. There are reasons why this is fact and why cops are trained to shoot center mass. The center of the body moves the least. While the limbs move the MOST therefore it is simple logic that one is far more likely to miss the limbs than the center of a targets torso. When one misses the target the odds increase of killing an innocent bystander. The example in the OP was in a Wal Mart with customers including kids everywhere.

When one only wounds a person one needs to shoot you have no idea what will happen. They might drop their weapon and surrender or simply get pissed and decide to try even harder to kill you.

The whole shoot to stop thing which cops are trained to do is strcitly for their own legal defense. Whether you are a cop or a private citizen the rule is simple if you have a reason to use a gun you have a reason to kill. Use it to kill otherwise you do not need to be touching it.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Muhammed said:
Could you explain why you feel that way?

The way I see it, some idiot called 911 because he saw someone holding a gun in a gun store. Having a gun in your hands is not unusual or anything to be alarmed about in a gun store, and it's certainly not illegal. Then the pig came in and shot the guy even though he had broken no laws, nor had he threatened anyone.

It's murder, plain and simple.
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Read the title of the thread.
Read the linked article.
Read. :roll:

A Wal-Mart is not a "gun store".

Some jackass pointing a tactical rifle at people inside a WAL-MART is surely justification for somebody to call 911.

And it's surely something for the police to take seriously.

And if the dude with the tactical rifle does not immediately respond to police commands, and subsequently points the tactical rifle towards the police for any reason at all..........


Oh never mind....if YOU can't even bother to READ what's been posted in the OP, you don't deserve anyone's time for an explanation.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

Lovebug said:
I realize all that. Perhaps my wishing it were different is being misunderstood, various of my comments indicate respect for law enforcement.
I am contemplating possible alternatives . In cases like this, it would be great if cops had training other than shoot to kill. Loss of life is permanent, people.
Not having been in the situation ourselves, not knowing all the facts, I don't understand how we can render judgment either way. I would like to see some footage. How close was the cop to that man? How erratic did he behave? According to his girlfriend, BB man had received a phone call prior to the incident and was just wandering around the toy section. Again, how often did the cop ask him to put down the gun? How threatening did he appear? How close was the cop to the gunman? Do we have any actual footage or are a few sentences in an article all we need to condemn the BB man?
When I target practice, I sometimes miss targets that are far, but never when they are right in front of me. Trying to picture WalMart aisles, the possibilities aren't that endless.
What about the other woman who got shot as she was trying to take her kids out of harm's way ( if I understood correctly)? Could that have been avoided if the cop had aimed lower?
How can we side one way or the other without having all the facts?
Click to expand...



The only thing I can think of is a better sub-lethal weapon than the current dart shooting tazer. Something longer ranged and more reliably sure to stop. Until we can "set phasers to stun", I doubt police shootings are going to get much less lethal.
 
Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

It may have already been mentioned, but why was this gun not contained in some form of packaging while on display and for sale in the store? If it had been shrink wrapped and boxed it wouldn't look like a real gun, it would look like a toy in a box. Now, if it had been so packaged and the guy took it out of the packaging, that's another story.

I believe there is potential, particularly in America, for a lawsuit against both the manufacturer of the toy and Wal-Mart. It is irresponsible, in my view, to have a replica gun for sale in such a form that it can be paraded around a large store as if it's real. Especially, considering the number of crazed idiots who are actually doing such things with the real deal.

Police are not to blame at all under the circumstances.
 
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