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Thread: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In The

  1. #11
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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Trained professionals should be capable of taking out a suspect without killing him/her.
    Trained professionals should be allowed to defend themselves first, others second, perpetrator last. Assuming the police thought it was a real gun, and assuming the "victim" was pointing it at people and not complying with police commands, and assuming the police were incapable of determining the gun the "victim" was holding was not relatively harmless, then the police officer absolutely did the right thing.

    Officers should only fire their weapon when there is absolutely ZERO other options and people's lives are in danger. And if the situation reaches such a critical mass, then they should shoot to the finish. The last thing you want to do is try and shoot an arm and miss and wound an innocent bystander/hostage. Or shoot a non-fatal wound and allow the perpetrator to start shooting back. If there is no other option but to shoot, you shoot to the finish.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Recently a woman was awarded 23.6 Billion dollars because her stupid husband smoked himself to death at 36 years of age. Why can't we sue the manufacturers of toys that look exactly like real guns from up close to far away. Why is it critical to a 6 year old the toy has to look like the real deal and people get killed flashing them to police?
    There are multiple simple answers here.

    #1) don't ever point anything that looks like a gun directly at other people

    #2) When police ask you to put something down, PUT IT DOWN.

    #3) When police draw guns and point them at you, you better do EXACTLY what they command you to do.

    #4) Don't do stupid stuff with anything that resembles a deadly weapon

    #5) Crosman is not responsible for this morons behavior inside a store.


    The last time I bought a Crosman bb gun it came in a box.
    I did not take the gun out of the box until I got home.
    I certainly would never think to remove gun from box inside a store and start pointing it at people.

  3. #13
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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Ideally, yes. But as I said before, nullifying the immediate threat to the surrounding persons as quickly as possible should take precedence over preserving the life of the gunman in those situations. You don't shoot with the presumption of innocence.
    I guess we can agree on that. Sometimes circumstances warrant a kill shot. But lets also look at this from a different angle.
    Beavercreek city stats confirm population < 50 thou, fairly rural, but the same could be said for any law enforcement agency, and that is one of complacency and not proficiency.
    While I respect and appreciate those who serve and protect, and I realize that not too many cops will ever have to face a life and death situation, I also expect more. We can't expect the perfect outcome every time, but we should be able to reduce the loss of life with better training.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    I guess we can agree on that. Sometimes circumstances warrant a kill shot. But lets also look at this from a different angle.
    Beavercreek city stats confirm population < 50 thou, fairly rural, but the same could be said for any law enforcement agency, and that is one of complacency and not proficiency.
    While I respect and appreciate those who serve and protect, and I realize that not too many cops will ever have to face a life and death situation, I also expect more. We can't expect the perfect outcome every time, but we should be able to reduce the loss of life with better training.
    Trying to "wound" somebody with what looks like at the very least a semi-automatic "assault style" weapon with a magazine does not make sense.

    A wounded man with a full magazine would be highly dangerous to everyone around.

    If the dude was swinging a knife or a hammer or something you may have a point....

    But in this case...I just can't fault the police based on what little information we have to go on.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Trained professionals should be capable of taking out a suspect without killing him/her. We are not talking about the average trigger happy Joe.
    have you ever shot a gun before?

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Trained professionals should be capable of taking out a suspect without killing him/her. We are not talking about the average trigger happy Joe.
    Sorry, but that is fantasy land. The stop area on an arm is less than two inches, and even then there is no guarantee that the suspect will be stopped. There are very few people, including police, capable of hitting that size target under stress.

    The police in this case may have acted in haste, but once the decision is made to shoot, you shoot for center body mass.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    I agree. I just wish cops would learn to shoot to stop, not to kill, by whatever means possible. Train to shoot at the arm, minimizing the threat while avoiding any loss of life.
    This "loss of life" is caused by people the police do not know and they are pointing weapons at them. You see a weapon pointed at you your reaction (training) is to hit the greatest mass area i.e., the chest area. THAT is how you defend yourself from being killed. A gun is the last resort but you use it to protect yourself from being killed by killing the other guy. One guy goes home to his family and one fool is dead and that is the way it should be.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    If that quote is true, then the police are not at fault.

    That's a big "if"...but highly significant no matter how you slice it.


    Cool BB gun.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    have you ever shot a gun before?
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Sorry, but that is fantasy land. The stop area on an arm is less than two inches, and even then there is no guarantee that the suspect will be stopped. There are very few people, including police, capable of hitting that size target under stress.

    The police in this case may have acted in haste, but once the decision is made to shoot, you shoot for center body mass.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    This "loss of life" is caused by people the police do not know and they are pointing weapons at them. You see a weapon pointed at you your reaction (training) is to hit the greatest mass area i.e., the chest area. THAT is how you defend yourself from being killed. A gun is the last resort but you use it to protect yourself from being killed by killing the other guy. One guy goes home to his family and one fool is dead and that is the way it should be.
    Not too much to ask to expect the best from law enforcement. Most professionals train at regular intervals, and police must do so as well, must try for the best outcome when confronted with a deadly firearm. I am sure they are capable, they try their best, but I am also sure that many are complacent simply because situations like this aren't commonplace. Police officer, pilot, doctor, truck driver, all should strive to be the best at what they do.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Shot Dead By Police In Wal-Mart For Carrying BB Gun He Picked Up In

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Not too much to ask to expect the best from law enforcement.
    It kind of is because not all law enforcement are as effective or trained nearly as well as Navy seals.
    Most professionals train at regular intervals, and police must do so as well,
    As do i, as part of my job. At a distance of 9 feet away, the difference between shooting the arm or the chest/head is a distance of a couple of millimeters in alignment on the pistol. That means that chances are, if you're the "new guy" out of basic training, and you're breathing heavy, you're simply not going to hit where you intend to shoot. These are not robots, lovebug, these are humans, for all we know the cop aimed for the leg but the cocking action of the pistol caused him to fire slightly upwards. This is why, no matter how trained you are, we practice weapon safety.
    must try for the best outcome when confronted with a deadly firearm. I am sure they are capable, they try their best, but I am also sure that many are complacent simply because situations like this aren't commonplace. Police officer, pilot, doctor, truck driver, all should strive to be the best at what they do.
    The best we can do, is simply keep our fellow officers from getting hurt. As far as civilians, especially when they act stupid like this, have it coming.

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