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Thread: Christian Leader: ISIS is Beheading Children[W:131]

  1. #71
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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have a point here? We know Obama removed the troops from Iraq and we can see the consequences. We also know that the Bush Administration expected the troops to remain, though there would be further negotiations.

    Iraq was simply not ready to look after itself without American, or Coalition, help. Certainly BHO kept his election promise but was that really so much more important than what inevitably happened?
    This has been expalined many times. But here we go again:

    ""As the senior Pentagon official responsible for Iraq policy during the first three years of the Obama administration, I had a front-row seat for the internal deliberations over how to end the war. Through the first half of 2011, there was a vigorous debate within the administration about whether U.S. forces should remain in Iraq beyond December, and if so, in what numbers and with what missions. Ultimately, at great political risk, President Obama approved negotiations with the Iraqi government to allow a force of around 5,000 American troops to stay in Iraq to provide counterterrorism support and air cover and to train the Iraqi army. But, as commander in chief, he was unwilling to strand U.S. forces in a hostile, anti-American environment without the legal protections and immunities required to ensure soldiers didn’t end up in Iraqi jails. These protections, which are common in nearly every country where U.S. forces operate, were guaranteed under the 2008 status of forces agreement negotiated by the Bush administration; Obama simply demanded that they continue under any follow-on accord.

    Iraq’s prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, told U.S. negotiators that he was willing to sign an executive memorandum of understanding that included these legal protections. But for any agreement to be binding under the Iraqi constitution, it had to be approved by the Iraqi parliament. This was the judgment of every senior administration lawyer and Maliki’s own legal adviser, and no senior U.S. military commander made the case that we should leave forces behind without these protections. Even Sen. John McCain, perhaps the administration’s harshest Iraq critic, admitted in a December 2011 speech discussing the withdrawal that the president’s demand for binding legal immunities “was a matter of vital importance.” Moreover, because the 2008 security agreement had been approved by the Iraqi parliament, it seemed both unrealistic and politically unsustainable to apply a lower standard this time around.

    No, Obama Didn


    In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.

    But ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis, and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki appears to have been unwilling to take the political risk of extending it. While he was inclined to see a small number of American soldiers stay behind to continue mentoring Iraqi forces, the likes of Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, on whose support Maliki’s ruling coalition depends, were having none of it. Even the Obama Administration’s plan to keep some 3,000 trainers behind failed because the Iraqis were unwilling to grant them the legal immunity from local prosecution that is common to SOF agreements in most countries where U.S. forces are based."
    Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com
    Last edited by Gina; 08-09-14 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Fair Use


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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    ????????

    How is what I said "partisan" delusions? Hell, I'm OTHER, not Dem or Rep. Reps are just the lesser of two evils. Mainly because when they were in power they were lazy and did almost nothing.
    I wouldn't call Iraq and the ballooning of the federal deficit and debt nothing .
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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Nature abhors a vacuum. You break it you buy it. Withdraw US troops and assholes like these take over. This was easily avoided. Obama reaps what he sows. Another **** up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    This isn't caused by the withdrawal, it's caused by the invasion. Did those jackasses in charge actually think that they could uproot a dictator and democracy would flower there? Saddam wouldn't have tolerated Al Qaida or anyone else in his sandbox and you guys tossed him out.
    Es ist alles upgefuct. Get out and stay out.

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    ISIS wouldnt have existed if we didnt invade Iraq in the first place. Therefore the US created them.
    well there ya go people... ISIS is a US creation.... Al queda too, obvsiouly.

    we should invade the US and kill all those evil terrorists creators.

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    [QUOTE=Thrilla;1063620037]Bush is not in office and Saddam is dead.


    now what?

    My call? Get out and stay out. It's unfixable.
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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Your post isn't "other" no matter what you claim to be. Your post is partisan garbage not grounded in fact but rather grounded emotion.
    No. I posted it after looking up US Presidents on Wikipedia that broke them down by party and then did a quick scan of what wars they were in or contributed to and also from memory since I knew it was a Dem who took us into WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam and also, I served in the military during half of Reagan up to 2007, so I knew about Carter and later ones from experience.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Your Republicans will continue to take time off from their August vacations to cheap-shot and back-stab the President on the world stage as they have for six years .
    they ain't my Republicans... they're as usueless as your Democrats

    do you seriously expect the GOP to support Obama?... really?... what ****ing planet do you live on?

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Yes, we know tose excuses and they were made in 2011 but you seem unfamiliar with the history.

    Here it is. U.S.

    This describes the situation within the Bush Administration at the time.
    Some anonymous U.S. officials and specialists who follow the war have argued they believe that parts of the agreement may be circumvented and that other parts may be open to interpretation, including: the parts giving Iraqi legal jurisdiction over United States soldiers who commit crimes off base and off duty, the part requiring for US troops to obtain Iraqi permission for all military operations, and the part banning the United States from staging attacks on other countries from Iraq.[38] For example, administration officials have argued that Iraqi prosecution of U.S. soldiers could take three years, by which time the U.S. will have withdrawn from Iraq under the terms of the agreement. In the interim, U.S. troops will remain under the jurisdiction of America's Uniform Code of Military Justice. Michael E. O'Hanlon, of the Brookings Institution research group, said there are "these areas that are not as clear cut as the Iraqis would like to think."[16]

    U.S. President George W. Bush hailed the passing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq", Bush said. He continued that "two years ago, this day seemed unlikely - but the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament".[39]

    Army planners have privately acknowledged they are examining projections that could see the number of Americans hovering between 30,000 and 50,000, but maybe as high as 70,000, for a substantial time beyond 2011. Pentagon planners say those currently counted as combat troops could be "re-missioned" and that their efforts could be redefined as training and support for the Iraqis.[40] Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen has also said "three years is a long time. Conditions could change in that period of time".[41]

    In a letter to U.S. military personnel about new rules of engagement, Gen. Ray Odierno said that U.S. forces would reduce their visibility but that this does not mean "any reduction in our fundamental ability to protect ourselves". Odierno wrote that U.S. forces would coordinate "operations with the approval of the GoI (Government of Iraq), and we will conduct all operations by, with, and through the Iraqi Security Forces...Despite some adjustments to the way we conduct operations, the agreement simply reinforces transitions that are already underway, and I want to emphasize that our overarching principles remain the same", he further wrote.[42]

    General Raymond Odierno said that some U.S. forces would remain at local security stations as training and mentoring teams past the June 2009 deadline specified in the status of forces agreement. In contrast, Robert Gates estimated U.S. troops will be "out of cities and populated areas" by June 30. "That's the point at which we will have turned over all 18 provinces to provincial Iraqi control", he predicted.[43] A spokesman for Odierno, Lt. Col. James Hutton, reiterated that the soldiers staying in cities would not be combat forces but rather "enablers," who would provide services such as medical care, air-traffic control and helicopter support that the Iraqis cannot perform themselves.[44] Odierno's comments sparked outrage among some Iraqi lawmakers who say the United States is paving the way for breaching the interim agreement.[45]

    When asked by Charlie Rose in a PBS interview how big the American “residual” force would be in Iraq after 2011, Secretary of Defense Gates replied that although the mission would change, “my guess is that you’re looking at perhaps several tens of thousands of American troops”.[15]
    Further negotiations were expected but few thought at the time that the next President would simply abandon Iraq and leave it to its own devices. It was the first time Iraq had ever had a Democracy and they just couldn't cope. Expecting it to be run like democracies with a hundred years experience behind them was simply foolish, and deadly naive.

    Obama Flashback: 'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

    Joe Biden | 2010 | Iraq | Achievement | Obama Administration

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I wouldn't call Iraq and the ballooning of the federal deficit and debt nothing .
    Uh. The Dems had control of the House during much of that. The deficit was actually pretty close to being wiped out when the Dems retook the house. Also, it was necessary since Clinton left the military in such piss poor shape.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: ISIS Beheading and Crucifying Christians in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Nature abhors a vacuum. You break it you buy it. Withdraw US troops and assholes like these take over. This was easily avoided. Obama reaps what he sows. Another **** up.
    How, with permanent occupation? Fighting guerillas on foreign soil hasn't worked out so well, historically.
    Saddam was the US's best hope for an ally in the region and they tore him down. How do you propose to fill the vacuum? Chaos is inevitable. You can't put toothpaste back into the tube and you can't impose democracy.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
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