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Thread: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That last is not so. The doctors there have said, in this case, it IS a necessary surgical procedure.
    Which is why I included the word "allegedly"

    We don't know if it was needed or not.

    And once again there is nothing preventing her from changing doctors, hospitals or even opting for home birth.
    Except the bit about the hospital calling DCFS on her if she didn't have a c-section
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That would seem to be the case

    From the OP


    on edit: I read you post wrong. They are threatening her is she returned to the hospital; not if she went elsewhere

    on edit a 2nd time: Actually it depends on how you read the sentence. I could mean that that were going to report her if she tried to have a "trial of labor" elsewhere, and perform a C-section if she returned to that hospital
    Agreed. It could really go either way given how the article is written.

    For that matter, why would she need a restraining order if she could simply go to another hospital?

    Either she's being completely unreasonable with regard to her choice of care provider, or the hospital and the courts are majorly overstepping their bounds here. It kind of makes a difference which.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So, let me get this straight: this woman's doctors have recommended C-Section. Get new doctors. Hospital won't allow natural childbirth. Go to another hospital.

    "I want you to cut off my leg without anesthetic." Any doctor or hospital should be able to refuse that request.

    What's your problem with this? Hospitals aren't bound to allow what they believe is an unsafe procedure. Why do you think they should be forced into it?
    In my case, VBAC wasn't even an option. I knew that, and you're right...if it upset me, I was free to leave my OB/GYN group and find another.

    I'm an old fashioned girl and think that on any given day, my doctors know more than I do about these matters. They went to medical school. I didn't. It's okay to ask, and it's okay to disagree (and then go elsewhere), but it isn't okay to force a doctor to do something he/she knows or thinks is dangerous and wrong.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Agreed. It could really go either way given how the article is written.

    For that matter, why would she need a restraining order if she could simply go to another hospital?

    Either she's being completely unreasonable with regard to her choice of care provider, or the hospital and the courts are majorly overstepping their bounds here. It kind of makes a difference which.
    Yeah, we really only have one side of the story here, and I imaging the hospital is constrained about stating the details due to privacy laws.

    It may be that there's something about the woman's condition that makes a natural childbirth entirely inappropriate. Therefore, reporting her to DCFS might be a reasonable thing to do.

    But we don't know enough to say
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    I think the doctors are completely in the right here, although the statement attributed to them is worded very poorly. If she goes there to deliver, there isn't time to get her to another facility, so they HAVE TO operate. Saying "we'll tell on you and force you into it" skips all of the medical necessity and turns it into a power play. If she doesn't want surgery, she should be able to sign about 100 waivers and be willing to die in the process. Although, considering the baby.... yeah, there are a lot of ins and outs here that aren't being considered in full light.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    This might shed some light: National Guideline Clearinghouse | Guideline Synthesis: Vaginal Birth After Cesarean (VBAC)
    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) agree that that most women with a history of one or two uncomplicated low transverse caesarean sections, in an otherwise uncomplicated pregnancy at term and with no contraindications to vaginal birth, are candidates for and should be counseled about VBAC. There is further agreement that women at high risk for complications—including those with a history of one classical or T-incision, or prior uterine rupture—are not generally candidates for VBAC. RCOG also cites a history of three or more previous caesarean deliveries as a contraindication to VBAC. ACOG notes that data regarding the risk for women undergoing TOLAC with more than two previous cesarean deliveries is limited. With regard to prior low-vertical incisions, ACOG states that recognizing the limitations of available data, health care providers and patients may choose to proceed with TOLAC in the presence of a documented prior low vertical uterine incision. RCOG cites prior inverted T- or J-incisions and prior low vertical incisions as variants associated with an increased risk of uterine rupture.
    Also: Ob Gyns Issue Less Restrictive VBAC Guidelines - ACOG
    Attempting a vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC) is a safe and appropriate choice for most women who have had a prior cesarean delivery, including for some women who have had two previous cesareans, according to guidelines released today by The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.
    Jennifer Goodall has had 3 C sections. Another article on the story from a more neutral source than the OP: Woman in legal fight over C-section delivers baby
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This might shed some light: National Guideline Clearinghouse | Guideline Synthesis: Vaginal Birth After Cesarean (VBAC) Also: Ob Gyns Issue Less Restrictive VBAC Guidelines - ACOG Jennifer Goodall has had 3 C sections. Another article on the story from a more neutral source than the OP: Woman in legal fight over C-section delivers baby
    Interesting.

    Wow on that USA Today article. 6000 people are petitioning with her? I wonder how many of them are medical experts.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Still don't get the court involvement here when she ended up going to a different hospital to get precisely what she wanted anyway.

    From the USA Today link:
    I am grateful to the medical staff at another hospital who assisted us in a safe and healthy delivery."
    I hope she had to pay full court costs and damages for the hospital who had to represent itself in court for this specious motion.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Still don't get the court involvement here when she ended up going to a different hospital to get precisely what she wanted anyway.

    From the USA Today link:


    I hope she had to pay full court costs and damages for the hospital who had to represent itself in court for this specious motion.
    I thought she ultimately wound up with a c-section?
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 08-01-14 at 03:17 PM.

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    Re: Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I though she ultimately wound up with a c-section?
    Here's the whole quote from the article:

    "I welcomed my son into the world after laboring, consenting to surgery when it became apparent that it was necessary because labor was not progressing," Goodall said in a written statement posted to Facebook. "This was all I wanted to begin with. I am grateful to the medical staff at another hospital who assisted us in a safe and healthy delivery."

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