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Thread: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

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    Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    A Satanist group is using the Hobby Lobby ruling to campaign for a religious exemption to anti-choice abortion laws.

    The Satanic Temple (TST) is a religious group that "believes that the body is inviolable **subject to one’s own will alone" and encourages making personal health decisions "based on the best scientific understanding of the world, regardless of the religious or political beliefs of others.” The group launched a campaign Monday on behalf of a woman's right to accurate medical information and cited the Hobby Lobby ruling as bolstering this position.

    Hobby Lobby, a Christian-owned arts and crafts store based in Oklahoma, filed a lawsuit in 2012 due to a stipulation in President Obama's Affordable Care Act which required employer-provided health insurance to cover contraceptives. Hobby Lobby disagreed with this on the basis that certain contraceptives could be abortive and argued the law violates religious freedom. In June, the Supreme Court ruled that some closely held, for-profit corporations could be exempt from providing contraception coverage to employees on the basis of religious beliefs.

    ...

    Informed consent bills **requiring abortion providers to give their patients official “informational” material regarding the procedure **have been criticized in the past for providing biased and false information to women in a bald effort at dissuading them from abortions. Such materials have included claims of a link between abortion and breast cancer, as well as claims regarding a depressive “post*abortion syndrome”, both of which The Satanic Temple view as “scientifically unfounded” and “medically invalid” and therefore an affront to their religious beliefs.

    Currently, 35 states require that women receive "informational" abortion counseling before terminating a pregnancy. This can include written materials with statements about the fetus's ability to feel pain, erroneous links between abortion and increased breast cancer risks and supposed psychological responses to abortion.
    TST considers this misleading and believes the Hobby Lobby ruling bolsters the temple's goal for religious exemption.

    “While we feel we have a strong case for an exemption regardless of the Hobby Lobby ruling, the Supreme Court has decided that religious beliefs are so sacrosanct that they can even trump scientific fact," TST spokesperson Lucien Greaves said in a press release. "This was made clear when they allowed Hobby Lobby to claim certain contraceptives were abortifacients, when in fact they are not. Because of the respect the Court has given to religious beliefs, and the fact that our our beliefs are based on best available knowledge, we expect that our belief in the illegitimacy of state* mandated ‘informational’ material is enough to exempt us, and those who hold our beliefs, from having to receive them.
    Bold added by me

    The bold outlines the crux of the suit. Basically the satanic church sees it as an affront when court decisions are made by scientifically unfounded views, which happened by the SCOTUS decision. So their argument is if religion is so sacred that it can be held to a higher standard than actual reality (science), then they seek a ruling as their church believes that science is the supreme font of knowledge.

    Its an interesting twist on the SCOTUS decision and I am of two minds. While I would love for there to be fewer regulations that are only there to get around Roe versus Wade, which causes harm to women. I also think the SCOTUS ruling is dangerous at its core for our society and really, we shouldn't be using it to even further positive interests.

    On the other hand, between this and the Baphomet statue in Oklahoma, these guys are superb trolls and they are just plain fun to watch people use pro-religious laws for their full extent, hopefully to educate those people who can't understand the first amendment. Its amusing, but still, its sad that the recent SCOTUS decision is creating these kinds of situations and it would have been better if they had ruled another way.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    It often seems that those in the comfortable majority religious position simply equate the general idea of religion with their specific religious ideas. Whether they think that others simply don't exist or don't speak up, I don't know, but they don't seem to see this kind of thing coming. We critics of religion and any member of a minority religion obviously see these sorts of things immediately. The Hobby Lobby ruling involved five Catholic men who didn't seem to realize that other religions besides their own would be able to use that ruling the same way they could.
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    I'm all in favor of Satanists getting abortions. I say let them have the exemption.

    In practice, though, they are probably going to find out that it's harder to get an exemption than they might have imagined.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I'm all in favor of Satanists getting abortions. I say let them have the exemption.

    In practice, though, they are probably going to find out that it's harder to get an exemption than they might have imagined.
    Why Satanists and not Christian women? A lot of protestant and catholic women get abortions.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Science has nothing to say about the morality/immorality of abortion so I don't know what their point is.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Science has nothing to say about the morality/immorality of abortion so I don't know what their point is.
    Sure it does. It can study outcomes and see if the results of abortion are happier, healthier, and wealthier women and families. As it turns out, legal abortion does that. And what better measure of morality than the creation of good for lots of people?

    I don't know why people claim that science can't tell us good and evil, or right and wrong. Of course it can. Science is just the study of reality, of facts. Actions and choices create results. Those are facts that can be studied and examined. I don't see why this confuses people.
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Science can tell us facts but it can't assign value to the facts. In your example, you're assigning a higher value of "happier (whatever that means), healthier and wealthier" as greater than the value of the life that was ended. Its your interpretation of the facts, not science's thats making that judgement.

    In their statement the satanists say they value science over religion, but I don't see a tie in to their objection to receving materials that may inform their decision. Its a self-defeating argument and nothing more than a publicity stunt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Sure it does. It can study outcomes and see if the results of abortion are happier, healthier, and wealthier women and families. As it turns out, legal abortion does that. And what better measure of morality than the creation of good for lots of people?

    I don't know why people claim that science can't tell us good and evil, or right and wrong. Of course it can. Science is just the study of reality, of facts. Actions and choices create results. Those are facts that can be studied and examined. I don't see why this confuses people.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Science can tell us facts but it can't assign value to the facts. In your example, you're assigning a higher value of "happier (whatever that means), healthier and wealthier" as greater than the value of the life that was ended. Its your interpretation of the facts, not science's thats making that judgement.

    In their statement the satanists say they value science over religion, but I don't see a tie in to their objection to receving materials that may inform their decision. Its a self-defeating argument and nothing more than a publicity stunt.
    Science is the systematic search for truth using observations and experimentation, with that definition it most certainly can say something about the ETHICALITY (morals are from the individual, we need to focus on the society, stick with ethics which is morals but for a society in a short sense).

    Through observation and experimentation science can lead to the general view of abortion as to whether or not it may be ethical.

    People seem to confuse science with some sort of mystical back to the future lazer mad stuff, it's really just a search for the truth with empirical data, that truth is not limited to ANYTHING.

    That can assign some value to facts, although that is very subjective so you don't have to agree with anyone there but I think it can.
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    That seems to be what the satanists are saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Science is the systematic search for truth using observations and experimentation, with that definition it most certainly can say something about the ETHICALITY (morals are from the individual, we need to focus on the society, stick with ethics which is morals but for a society in a short sense).

    Through observation and experimentation science can lead to the general view of abortion as to whether or not it may be ethical.

    People seem to confuse science with some sort of mystical back to the future lazer mad stuff, it's really just a search for the truth with empirical data, that truth is not limited to ANYTHING.

    That can assign some value to facts, although that is very subjective so you don't have to agree with anyone there but I think it can.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    That seems to be what the satanists are saying.

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