Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 64

Thread: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

  1. #31
    Guru
    ashurbanipal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,859

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale
    I don't know why people claim that science can't tell us good and evil, or right and wrong. Of course it can. Science is just the study of reality, of facts. Actions and choices create results. Those are facts that can be studied and examined. I don't see why this confuses people.
    Because facts do not in themselves disclose values, which have to be assumed in order to interpret facts as having a moral valence.

    I watched a Ted Talk by Sam Harris in which he made a similar claim about religion and its treatment of women. While his claim seemed to be that facts alone gave us a basis for morality, he had to constantly refer to what causes "human flourishing" and "human suffering"--as if it were also a fact that these aren't values, but are rather found in some natural law somewhere.

    Now, to be clear, I more or less agree with the values he seemed to advocate (though I can think of some counter-examples). That's not the point, however: the values must be present in order for the rest of the argument to work, and those values are not in the world, but rather, a product of human intention.

  2. #32
    Guru
    ashurbanipal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,859

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Yeah, this ruling made me wish for a few moments I had held on to my company. Being a Thelemite, I can think of all kinds of laws I would have been able to simply ignore.

  3. #33
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 12:12 PM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,194

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Sure it does. It can study outcomes and see if the results of abortion are happier, healthier, and wealthier women and families. As it turns out, legal abortion does that. And what better measure of morality than the creation of good for lots of people?

    I don't know why people claim that science can't tell us good and evil, or right and wrong. Of course it can. Science is just the study of reality, of facts. Actions and choices create results. Those are facts that can be studied and examined. I don't see why this confuses people.
    Science can't measure good and evil. Those are hypothetical constructs. Hypothetical constructs don't lend themselves to empirical data. Scientists can analyze data and then offer their opinion as to whether it was good or evil, but science itself cannot measure good nor evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  4. #34
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 12:12 PM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,194

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Honestly I hope they do. The scotus ****ed up but there's no fixing that so use it for good where you can
    They will just employ the "no true Scottsman" fallacy. Five Catholics control the court. If the Catholic church can get away with the Inquisition, the silent consent of the Holocaust, and pedophile priest coverups, this is nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  5. #35
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 12:12 PM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,194

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This has got to be the stupidist law suit ever.
    Still not as bad as Boehner's
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  6. #36
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:10 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,322
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I expect that the Satanist lawsuit will be struck down on the basis that their concerns are contrived. There is no coherent or consistent Satanist tradition that they can point to as the basis of their complaint. In addition, the parts of the law they object to do not require them to do anything; they are not being denied the choice to have an abortion and access to an abortion isn't being hindered. They are simply receiving information in the form of pamphlets and what not. I doubt that any religion would be granted an exception from the law on the basis that they didn't want to be handed a pamphlet.

    I suspect that most of the people going bats over the Hobby Lobby ruling haven't bothered to learn anything about the law and haven't read the ruling.
    Body freedom is a Satanist tradition. Your understanding of their lawsuit is also flawed.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #37
    cynical class clown
    Luftwaffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    CONNECTICUT
    Last Seen
    11-18-17 @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    10,499

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Define Bias.
    Define Morals.
    Define Ethics.
    Define Huge.
    Define Fetus.
    Define the "Experiment."
    Has this been done before? Why/Why not?
    Who is your intended population? USA? World?
    How would you support the generalizability of your results?
    How would you demonstrate that the results are valid? Reliable?
    There are a host of issues that you'd have to confront before scientific analysis would be possible in the scenario you outlined.
    There isn't really enough information present to be able to adequately critique in terms of potential confounds.
    Get a definition for all the defines, has this been done before? Most likely no, however would that even matter? Intended population is USA, after all its our laws to be affected that we will vote on, support generalizability due to having such a huge and random population in the experiment/survey (there is no controlled variable for this particular study so I will refer to it as a survey). Results are valid due to such big group, no definitive answer, it will possibly give an answer to the question of the ethics of abortion.

    There isn't that much, most of what you posted doesn't really discredit anything I posted.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  8. #38
    Professor

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    06-21-17 @ 12:55 PM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,577

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Get a definition for all the defines, has this been done before? Most likely no, however would that even matter? Intended population is USA, after all its our laws to be affected that we will vote on, support generalizability due to having such a huge and random population in the experiment/survey (there is no controlled variable for this particular study so I will refer to it as a survey). Results are valid due to such big group, no definitive answer, it will possibly give an answer to the question of the ethics of abortion.

    There isn't that much, most of what you posted doesn't really discredit anything I posted.
    Your idea is a simple survey with a large sample size. And you think this hasn't been done before? Like I said: naive. Your post discredits you far more effectively than anything I could contribute. You gloss over the "defines," yet defining variables is often one of the most important and challenging aspects of social scienctific research.

  9. #39
    cynical class clown
    Luftwaffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    CONNECTICUT
    Last Seen
    11-18-17 @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    10,499

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Your idea is a simple survey with a large sample size. And you think this hasn't been done before? Like I said: naive. Your post discredits you far more effectively than anything I could contribute. You gloss over the "defines," yet defining variables is often one of the most important and challenging aspects of social scienctific research.
    For abortion? I'm not sure that has been done before, the point isn't to find the answer though, it's to get as close to it as possible, you can't survey every single person in the world (the U.S is pretty damn big too, it's impossible to survey every single American).

    Also yes you can gloss over the defines, get Oxford English Dictionary, that is literally the most definitive dictionary there is for the English language, what it says goes.

    Also, you're naive, you don't really need to define moral at all, only ethics. This survey is geared towards the society as a whole not an individual.

    That's my idea Great job discovering my idea which I had made so very clear to everyone!
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

  10. #40
    Curmudgeon


    LowDown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,560
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Body freedom is a Satanist tradition. Your understanding of their lawsuit is also flawed.
    Wrong on both counts.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •