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Thread: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

  1. #21
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This has got to be the stupidist law suit ever.
    Well, no. It actually, assuming it got that far, force SCOTUS to further clarify a murky decision. SCOTUS did bring this on themselves by stating in the original decision that it was quite narrow, then clarifying the next week that it wasn't so narrow, then issued another ruling which contradicted part of the Hobby Lobby ruling. Right now, no one knows for sure just how things really are.

    And in an era where congress is thinking of suing the president for doing the same things every other president has done, this is not even close to the stupidest.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    "morals" "we"

    Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    People keep equivocating morals with ethics and it's starting to piss me off.

    Morals = individual

    Ethics = society

    Science can most certainly determine the perceived ethical view of a certain matter. CERTAINLY, nothing will ever determine morals except yourself.
    Give me a couple of examples

  3. #23
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Give me a couple of examples
    #1 Gather a huge amount of people

    #2 Show them and discuss about abortion, absolutely no bias allowed, only discuss the procedure and state of the fetus

    #3 Ask people afterwards their view on abortion in terms of their morals

    #4 Record data from the experiment

    #5 Publish data which then can point to whether or not abortion may be seen as ethical or not.

    ^ Basically the scientific method but I left the hypothesis part out.
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Why Satanists and not Christian women? A lot of protestant and catholic women get abortions.
    As Margaret Sanger wrote, planned parenthood, birth control and abortion as it were, is all about getting undesirable people to eliminate themselves from the gene pool.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    As Margaret Sanger wrote, planned parenthood, birth control and abortion as it were, is all about getting undesirable people to eliminate themselves from the gene pool.
    Really? Interesting. So what's this have to do with the price of tea in China?

  6. #26
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    #1 Gather a huge amount of people

    #2 Show them and discuss about abortion, absolutely no bias allowed, only discuss the procedure and state of the fetus

    #3 Ask people afterwards their view on abortion in terms of their morals

    #4 Record data from the experiment

    #5 Publish data which then can point to whether or not abortion may be seen as ethical or not.

    ^ Basically the scientific method but I left the hypothesis part out.
    You have an extraordinarily naive view of social science and ethics.

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Well, no. It actually, assuming it got that far, force SCOTUS to further clarify a murky decision. SCOTUS did bring this on themselves by stating in the original decision that it was quite narrow, then clarifying the next week that it wasn't so narrow, then issued another ruling which contradicted part of the Hobby Lobby ruling. Right now, no one knows for sure just how things really are.

    And in an era where congress is thinking of suing the president for doing the same things every other president has done, this is not even close to the stupidest.
    I expect that the Satanist lawsuit will be struck down on the basis that their concerns are contrived. There is no coherent or consistent Satanist tradition that they can point to as the basis of their complaint. In addition, the parts of the law they object to do not require them to do anything; they are not being denied the choice to have an abortion and access to an abortion isn't being hindered. They are simply receiving information in the form of pamphlets and what not. I doubt that any religion would be granted an exception from the law on the basis that they didn't want to be handed a pamphlet.

    I suspect that most of the people going bats over the Hobby Lobby ruling haven't bothered to learn anything about the law and haven't read the ruling.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws



    Bold added by me

    The bold outlines the crux of the suit. Basically the satanic church sees it as an affront when court decisions are made by scientifically unfounded views, which happened by the SCOTUS decision. So their argument is if religion is so sacred that it can be held to a higher standard than actual reality (science), then they seek a ruling as their church believes that science is the supreme font of knowledge.

    Its an interesting twist on the SCOTUS decision and I am of two minds. While I would love for there to be fewer regulations that are only there to get around Roe versus Wade, which causes harm to women. I also think the SCOTUS ruling is dangerous at its core for our society and really, we shouldn't be using it to even further positive interests.

    On the other hand, between this and the Baphomet statue in Oklahoma, these guys are superb trolls and they are just plain fun to watch people use pro-religious laws for their full extent, hopefully to educate those people who can't understand the first amendment. Its amusing, but still, its sad that the recent SCOTUS decision is creating these kinds of situations and it would have been better if they had ruled another way.
    Roe vs Wade doesnt cause physical harm, though pregnancy might. It does harm natural rights though (dependent on whether you believe in the soul or not). The satanists are wrong though. The HL case was about the right not to be forced by the govt to do something which puts a substantial burden on your right to freely exercise your religion. This would only apply to abortion providers if they were being forced to so something which went against their religion. Are the abortion clinics religious corporations?

  9. #29
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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    You have an extraordinarily naive view of social science and ethics.
    Enlighten me.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: Satanists Cite Hobby Lobby In Campaign For Religious Exemption To Abortion Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Enlighten me.
    Define Bias.
    Define Morals.
    Define Ethics.
    Define Huge.
    Define Fetus.
    Define the "Experiment."
    Has this been done before? Why/Why not?
    Who is your intended population? USA? World?
    How would you support the generalizability of your results?
    How would you demonstrate that the results are valid? Reliable?
    There are a host of issues that you'd have to confront before scientific analysis would be possible in the scenario you outlined.
    There isn't really enough information present to be able to adequately critique in terms of potential confounds.

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