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80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

VanceMack said:
Where Greer would apply is in the shooting to prevent further or future harm. It could easily be argued that the shooting of these known dangerous felons fleeing the scene of this time prevented another 80 year old from getting waffle stomped and Recieving broken bones or worse. The justification is not in the prevention of future burglaries but rather the prevention of future assaults and in fact attempted murder.
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That is vigilantism. At some point you let the police do their job. Which would be apprehension etc.

People should never be punished for what they could or might do without evidence put forth in a court of law. Otherwise everyone might as well just give up their rights now and let the thought police take over.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

VanceMack said:
Where Greer would apply is in the shooting to prevent further or future harm. It could easily be argued that the shooting of these known dangerous felons fleeing the scene of this time prevented another 80 year old from getting waffle stomped and Recieving broken bones or worse. The justification is not in the prevention of future burglaries but rather the prevention of future assaults and in fact attempted murder.
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Minority Report is just a movie, man.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
The people in question turned to run, they were no longer a threat, period. He murdered the person. End of story. It is illegal to shoot someone fleeing because now there is no threat. It does not matter as to how many steps they took, they turned their backs to flee. At that point deadly force is no longer required.
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You have no understanding of humans. Understood.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
When I am 80, I would still not shoot a fleeing person in the back. That is just a cowardly ***** thing to do.
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Sure.

Have you ever been beaten by a couple of thugs?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
When I am 80, I would still not shoot a fleeing person in the back. That is just a cowardly ***** thing to do.
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I can only hope you get the opportunity...
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Misterveritis said:
You have no understanding of humans. Understood.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the law or my statement.

Misterveritis said:
Sure.

Have you ever been beaten by a couple of thugs?
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None of your business. I am not the subject of this debate. Now do you have anything to contribute besides retarded questions and a one line irrelevant statement?

Misterveritis said:
I can only hope you get the opportunity...
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I spent almost half my life in the military and as a police officer. I have had the opportunity many times. Again I am not the subject of this debate. Since you have no real argument to begin with, I guess we are done?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Kobie said:
Minority Report is just a movie, man.
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We have 'knowns'. The perpetrators in this case had a history. There is nothing to suggest they wouldnt continue.

Well...I mean there is NOW...
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Black Dog said:
That is vigilantism. At some point you let the police do their job. Which would be apprehension etc.

People should never be punished for what they could or might do without evidence put forth in a court of law. Otherwise everyone might as well just give up their rights now and let the thought police take over.
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I agree and if you note earlier I have said I think he went to far. HOWEVER...put yourself in his situation for a second. HONESTLY put yourself in his situation. You walk into your home, get jumped, get beaten, bloodied, and bruised (the description given by the police chief) and are then body slammed breaking your collar bone. You manage to grab a weapon and fire two shots indoors, continuing the pursuit you fire two more shots outdoors. Its not an event that is scripted, its not an event that played out over several minutes, and you would have to realistically put yourself in that scenario without the gift of hindsight, news reports, videos, etc. 10 seconds. 20 seconds tops. Now...where is your adrenaline? Where is your reaction? How much of your response is pure fight or flight?

Dood was stupid for making comments to the media. I highly doubt he was as calm, reasoned, and rational during the incident.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Simon W. Moon said:
TN v Garner doesn't support the use of deadly force based on hypothetical murders at some unspecified point in time.
TNvG indicates that deadly force is justified to end existing threats, not to to prevent future threats.
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"A Tennessee statute provides that if, after a police officer has given notice of an intent to arrest a criminal suspect, the suspect flees or forcibly resists, "the officer may use all the necessary means to effect the arrest." Acting under the authority of this statute, a Memphis police officer shot and killed appellee-respondent Garner's son as, after being told to halt, the son fled over a fence at night in the backyard of a house he was suspected of burglarizing. The officer used deadly force despite being "reasonably sure" the suspect was unarmed and thinking that he was 17 or 18 years old and of slight build."

Removing 'opinion', The Tennessee statute 'authorizes the use of deadly force against an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect."

And in this case, they may or may not have been armed but were ABSOLUTELY dangerous.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
When I am 80, I would still not shoot a fleeing person in the back. That is just a cowardly ***** thing to do.
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Nothing personal...but thats you making that rather bold statement today from the safety of a keyboard and computer screen and NOT as that 80 year old that just got his ass jumped in his own home,waffle stomped, and body slammed breaking bones. For all your bluster...to pretend you (or anyone else here) can state what you would or wouldnt do in HIS position is just plain bull****. "Cowardly" and "*****" is talking **** without being there and experiencing it.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
He wanted to send a message or get revenge, period. He did not say it directly and I never claimed such.
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BS.
You said you knew why.
The fact is that you do not know. Period.

All we pretty much know is that he was caught up in the moment. That does not require revenge or a desire to send a message.

So can your bs.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
When I am 80, I would still not shoot a fleeing person in the back. That is just a cowardly ***** thing to do.
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Well, aren't you the "man" of the board. So you would just tote an asswhipping and let all your belongings walk? Sure you would.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

VanceMack said:
"A Tennessee statute provides that if, after a police officer has given notice of an intent to arrest a criminal suspect, the suspect flees or forcibly resists, "the officer may use all the necessary means to effect the arrest." Acting under the authority of this statute, a Memphis police officer shot and killed appellee-respondent Garner's son as, after being told to halt, the son fled over a fence at night in the backyard of a house he was suspected of burglarizing. The officer used deadly force despite being "reasonably sure" the suspect was unarmed and thinking that he was 17 or 18 years old and of slight build."
Removing 'opinion', The Tennessee statute 'authorizes the use of deadly force against an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect."
And in this case, they may or may not have been armed but were ABSOLUTELY dangerous.
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I am not sure what point you're trying to make with this post.
You know that the law you mention above is the law that TNvG ruled as unconstitutional, right?

"We hold that the statute is invalid insofar as it purported to give Hymon the authority to act as he did."​

Shooting Garner was not a "good shoot", fyi.

I am still not sure why you're bothering to bring up TNvG as it is a red herring.

Greer was NOT trying to apprehend Miller.
Greer is not a police officer of any sort--nor was he acting under orders from a police officer of any sort.

TNvG doesn't have thing to do with Greer's situation.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Simon W. Moon said:
I am not sure what point you're trying to make with this post.
You know that the law you mention above is the law that TNvG ruled as unconstitutional, right?

Shooting Garner was not a "good shoot", fyi.
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Any time a criminal dies, its a good shoot in my opinion. Until a clear message is sent by the American people that we will no longer be victims. There will still be scumbag worthless people willing to steal, rape, and kill.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

CRUE CAB said:
Well, aren't you the "man" of the board. So you would just tote an asswhipping and let all your belongings walk? Sure you would.
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Whether he would or not has no bearing on what is right and wrong and what is legal and illegal.
What BD would or would not do is immaterial.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Black Dog said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with the law or my statement.

None of your business. I am not the subject of this debate. Now do you have anything to contribute besides retarded questions and a one line irrelevant statement?

I spent almost half my life in the military and as a police officer. I have had the opportunity many times. Again I am not the subject of this debate. Since you have no real argument to begin with, I guess we are done?
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Ah, Internet tough guy. Let's both hope that when you are about 80 you will get the opportunity to take a beating, have at least one bone broken and then behave heroically by cowering and whimpering so you wouldn't appear to be a ***** who defended himself.

We are done.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

CRUE CAB said:
Any time a criminal dies, its a good shoot in my opinion. Until a clear message is sent by the American people that we will no longer be victims. There will still be scumbag worthless people willing to steal, rape, and kill.
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Ironically, your plans calls for people to become criminals--murderers actually--by shooting their fellow citizens.

Not exactly the smartest crime reduction program-- "Fight crime by becoming a criminal!"
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Misterveritis said:
Ah, Internet tough guy. Let's both hope that when you are about 80 you will get the opportunity to take a beating, have at least one bone broken and then behave heroically by cowering and whimpering so you wouldn't appear to be a ***** who defended himself.
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What would be changed if BD were an eighty year old man who went through exactly what Greer did and behaved exactly as Greer did?
Not thing would be different as far as I can tell.
It would still be unethical to shoot a fleeing woman in the back.
It would still be illegal shoot a fleeing woman in the back.

BD doesn't have the power to change laws or ethics with his decision to shoot a fleeing woman in the back or not.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Simon W. Moon said:
Ironically, your plans calls for people to become criminals--murderers actually--by shooting their fellow citizens.

Not exactly the smartest crime reduction program-- "Fight crime by becoming a criminal!"
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So standing up to crime is "criminal" in your opinion. OK, that tells a lot.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Simon W. Moon said:
What would be changed if BD were an eighty year old man who went through exactly what Greer did and behaved exactly as Greer did?
Not thing would be different as far as I can tell.
It would still be unethical to shoot a fleeing woman in the back.
It would still be illegal shoot a fleeing woman in the back.

BD doesn't have the power to change laws or ethics with his decision to shoot a fleeing woman in the back or not.
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Yeah, you and the Internet tough guy would take a beating, allow yourselves to be robbed and whimper in the corner instead of defending yourself and your property. That is ethical. My ass.

I bet you think T. Martin was a victim.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

VanceMack said:
I agree and if you note earlier I have said I think he went to far. HOWEVER...put yourself in his situation for a second. HONESTLY put yourself in his situation. You walk into your home, get jumped, get beaten, bloodied, and bruised (the description given by the police chief) and are then body slammed breaking your collar bone. You manage to grab a weapon and fire two shots indoors, continuing the pursuit you fire two more shots outdoors. Its not an event that is scripted, its not an event that played out over several minutes, and you would have to realistically put yourself in that scenario without the gift of hindsight, news reports, videos, etc. 10 seconds. 20 seconds tops. Now...where is your adrenaline? Where is your reaction? How much of your response is pure fight or flight?

Dood was stupid for making comments to the media. I highly doubt he was as calm, reasoned, and rational during the incident.
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You agree and keep trying to make excuses for him is what I don't understand. He was wrong to do what he did.

I will take his statements vs the police who were not there.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

VanceMack said:
Nothing personal...but thats you making that rather bold statement today from the safety of a keyboard and computer screen and NOT as that 80 year old that just got his ass jumped in his own home,waffle stomped, and body slammed breaking bones. For all your bluster...to pretend you (or anyone else here) can state what you would or wouldnt do in HIS position is just plain bull****. "Cowardly" and "*****" is talking **** without being there and experiencing it.
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I have been wolf packed before by men... I did not shoot anyone. So you have ESP and know me?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Excon said:
BS.
You said you knew why.
The fact is that you do not know. Period.

All we pretty much know is that he was caught up in the moment. That does not require revenge or a desire to send a message.

So can your bs.
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Watch the video. Of course you are never known for honesty so I don't expect it here now.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

CRUE CAB said:
Well, aren't you the "man" of the board. So you would just tote an asswhipping and let all your belongings walk? Sure you would.
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Yes, Because I am not a ***** like others.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

Misterveritis said:
Ah, Internet tough guy. Let's both hope that when you are about 80 you will get the opportunity to take a beating, have at least one bone broken and then behave heroically by cowering and whimpering so you wouldn't appear to be a ***** who defended himself.

We are done.
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In other words... You got nothing.

Thanks for playing.
 
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