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80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
yea, him saying it's gonna leave a message is not him saying it's gonna leave a message
let's see what the legal system does and then discuss it
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:doh
Now you are purposely misstating what has been said.
He did not say he shot her to leave a message. He said his shooting her will leave a message.

to leave
and
will leave
Two different things.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Excon said:
Maybe you do not want everybody on the same page with factual information, but I have found it is the best place for all to start.
And yes you can hear what he said.
He did not say he shot her to send a message.
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It really doesn't matter whether he said "comma" or not. The big hammer facing him is the real fact he shot her twice in the back running down an alley from him. She isn't running out the door but rather down an alley. At this point the physical evidence has nailed him. And it sounds as if he is ready to take the consequences.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Crosscheck said:
It really doesn't matter whether he said "comma" or not. The big hammer facing him is the real fact he shot her twice in the back running down an alley from him. She isn't running out the door but rather down an alley. At this point the physical evidence has nailed him. And it sounds as if he is ready to take the consequences.
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Yeah, he's on the hook. He admits that he shot her in the moment (after they broke in and then beat him) and then thought, oh ****, and dragged her back onto his property. So he knew he was boned. But, he's 80 and they did break in and were violent. There's a good chance that any jury in the land would let him go and grill any DA that took him to trial.

You know that DAs are elected, right?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Crosscheck said:
It really doesn't matter whether he said "comma" or not. The big hammer facing him is the real fact he shot her twice in the back running down an alley from him. She isn't running out the door but rather down an alley. At this point the physical evidence has nailed him. And it sounds as if he is ready to take the consequences.
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I care not about everything else you said. I did not comment on it because I am already on the record saying it was illegal.

So now back to the point.
Yes it does matter to factually correct information, and all being on the same page.
While opinions about the facts may very, we all should attempt to get and keep the facts straight.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Excon said:
:doh
Now you are purposely misstating what has been said.
He did not say he shot her to leave a message. He said his shooting her will leave a message.

to leave
and
will leave
Two different things.
Click to expand...
here is exactly what he said, together with the cite:
“I shot her so that’s going to leave a message on his mind for the rest of his life.”
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California 80-year-old satisfied after gunning down fleeing pregnant home intruder
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Maybe the "so" here is functioning as a coordinating conjunction between two sentences and should be "and that " rather than "so that"?

Anyone else remember the case from several years ago of the older man in Houston who shot two men in the back and was no-billed by a grand jury? Grand jury clears Joe Horn for shooting men | abc13.com
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
here is exactly what he said, together with the cite:

California 80-year-old satisfied after gunning down fleeing pregnant home intruder
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Well, you know she wasn't pregnant, right? Makes that first report a bit of a lie. And again, he's 80. Back in his day the police would be giving him a medal and the mayor the keys to the city. It's now, but a few of us still remember when the violent criminal deserved what they got.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

clownboy said:
Yeah, he's on the hook. He admits that he shot her in the moment (after they broke in and then beat him) and then thought, oh ****, and dragged her back onto his property. So he knew he was boned. But, he's 80 and they did break in and were violent. There's a good chance that any jury in the land would let him go and grill any DA that took him to trial.

You know that DAs are elected, right?
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They will have to give him some kind of sentence. Really, really doubtful he would harm anyone else but you do have to have some kind of punishment. Yes it stinks to give him a punishment but it is the way the law is written when it comes to self defense.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

clownboy said:
Well, you know she wasn't pregnant, right? Makes that first report a bit of a lie. And again, he's 80. Back in his day the police would be giving him a medal and the mayor the keys to the city. It's now, but a few of us still remember when the violent criminal deserved what they got.
Click to expand...

These arguments teach me more and more that patient endurance is the best solution. Sooner or later most gun owners will have died of old age and we can begin to return to legal and cultural sanity on the issue.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Crosscheck said:
They will have to give him some kind of sentence. Really, really doubtful he would harm anyone else but you do have to have some kind of punishment. Yes it stinks to give him a punishment but it is the way the law is written when it comes to self defense.
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Yeah, I understand and would even agree, except now it's in the national press and the locals (specifically the voters) have their attention fixed on the matter. Depends on how close election time for the DA is. I'm thinking they may just cut bait on this one and let him go as long as he agrees to be quiet.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

nota bene said:
I wonder whether CBS or CNN has it wrong:

"[Long Beach Police Chief] McDonnell said an autopsy will provide the answer as to whether Miller really was pregnant. Police in Long Beach, California mull charges for Tom Greer, 80, who fatally shot female burglar who said she was pregnant - CBS News

"The woman was not pregnant, Ed Winter of the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office told CNN on Friday." Man, 80, to be charged for killing 'pregnant' intruder? - CNN.com
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I don't understand your confusion. There's no discrepancy between those two. One says a woman who SAID she was pregnant...true. And one says the coroner determined she was not pregnant... also true.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

clownboy said:
Well, you know she wasn't pregnant, right? Makes that first report a bit of a lie. And again, he's 80. Back in his day the police would be giving him a medal and the mayor the keys to the city. It's now, but a few of us still remember when the violent criminal deserved what they got.
Click to expand...
yes, at this time we know she was not pregnant
but her possibly being pregnant has not been a matter of discussion since it was learned she used that as a ruse in her plea not to be gunned down
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Morality Games said:
These arguments teach me more and more that patient endurance is the best solution. Sooner or later most gun owners will have died of old age and we can begin to return to legal and cultural sanity on the issue.
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Nice try, we pass our stuff on down to the kids when we die. Gun ranges are even more popular now than they were in my day.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Muhammed said:
What is the difference between "running away" and "repositioning your forces into a better tactical position to continue the attack?"
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Attack being the key word. You're not legally allowed to attack anyone. You can defend yourself, others, and in some states your property, you never have the right to attack. The 80 year old began a strategy of attack, followed through, and someone is dead. . . murder.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

clownboy said:
Nice try, we pass our stuff on down to the kids when we die. Gun ranges are even more popular now than they were in my day.
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Passing on objects is a lot easier than passing on enthusiasm for political activism. Guns will collect dust.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Excon said:
Stop playing obtuse. I provided him saying it.

He does not say he shot her to send a message.
Learn the damn difference.
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you now have the exact quote and the cite
there can be no doubt that the shooter was pleased with himself to have issued a statement with his two killing shots into the rear torso of a fleeing woman
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

justabubba said:
you now have the exact quote and the cite
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Without the comma, that is not an exact quote.
And we have him saying it, which trumps anyone's mis-quote of what he said.

So again. He did not say he shot her to send a message.


Again.

Start at the 1:27 mark.
​
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Morality Games said:
These arguments teach me more and more that patient endurance is the best solution. Sooner or later most gun owners will have died of old age and we can begin to return to legal and cultural sanity on the issue.
Click to expand...

I'm immortal. It has it's advantages like being young forever, but it has plenty of down sides. Like realizing that people don't change over thousands of years and they still want to force their will on others and call it an act to bring about peace and happiness.

The funny thing is force can never lead to peace and it surely doesn't bring happiness.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Morality Games said:
Passing on objects is a lot easier than passing on enthusiasm for political activism. Guns will collect dust.
Click to expand...

Seriously though, there is plenty of young people that are anti-gun control. You might want to start brainwashing the kids in school. It's all liberals are good at really.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
I'm immortal. It has it's advantages like being young forever, but it has plenty of down sides. Like realizing that people don't change over thousands of years and they still want to force their will on others and call it an act to bring about peace and happiness.

The funny thing is force can never lead to peace. Never could.
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The nature of humanity is that even the mere presence of one psyche necessarily influences the other. Exerting force on other people is as natural to us as breathing.

You can channel that force to be a power for freedom rather than against it, but Yin/Yang entails there are no absolutes. Preserving freedom sometimes entails giving up freedom, inasmuch as recycling entails surrendering portions of the recycled material to entropy.

In this case, preserving gun rights required empathizing that lethal force in self defense is a grave responsibility meant to protect yourself from the dangers of a hard world, something conservatives have consistently failed to achieve in their enthusiasm for privately exercised revenge justice.

In the end, these excessively tolerant guns use laws will do more to destroy self defense rights than liberalism ever could.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
Seriously though, there is plenty of young people that are anti-gun control. You might want to start brainwashing the kids in school. It's all liberals are good at really.
Click to expand...

Enough, maybe, to stall.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

MaggieD said:
The responses on this thread are the reason people think way too many gun owners are NUTZ. Anyone not finding this reprehensible is a jackass. If the facts are as presented, that she was running away and was shot in the back, this complete asshole belongs in the slammer. Shame on anyone who believes otherwise.
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I believe otherwise. We have plenty of people stealing us blind, including our government. She robbed and she died. There is a lesson there.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Middleground said:
But the child was innocent, no? Take the mother out of the equation for an instance. Tell me... why did the child deserve to die?
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Grow up. The gene pool just got thinned. Bad things happen to the innocent every day.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Henrin said:
Seriously though, there is plenty of young people that are anti-gun control. You might want to start brainwashing the kids in school. It's all liberals are good at really.
Click to expand...
i can appreciate that you are opposed to those who make rational, factual, persuasive arguments, because that would be very foreign to the interests of your established political ideology, which compels you to believe what you are told, without self examination of what has been presented
 
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