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80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Middleground said:
But the child was innocent, no? Take the mother out of the equation for an instance. Tell me... why did the child deserve to die?
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It didn't. But that doesn't automatically place the blame on the shooter unless you're willing to state that deadly force is never justified against a pregnant woman.
Logically if the shooting is justified blame belongs with the mother, if it's not justified it belongs with the shooter.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Deuce said:
When the **** did my country get filled with ****ing monsters?
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That's a ridiculous question.

It's not "your country" and it's damned sure not filled with monsters.

The guy in question made a bad decision under intense pressure. He's not a monster. He's human. The same goes for people in this thread that have supported the shooting. They aren't bad people either. They simply understand how an elderly person could reasonably fear for their life after being attacked in their home.

Those who have made comments to the effect that this never would have happened if the kids didn't break into the house are 100% correct. Those kids initiated the situation by committing a series of felonies and I wouldn't be the least bit opposed to charging the one who got away with murder too.

What you've got here is a couple of bad people who made the choice to be violent criminals and one of them paid the price for that decision. My heart sure as hell isn't bleeding for the chick that got shot.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Cryptic said:
Just following Barack "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon" Obama's lead.
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We'll put you down as one of his followers then.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

rocket88 said:
We'll put you down as one of his followers then.
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Ok, I get your point. Please dont list me as an Obama follower.
Lutherf said:
I just watched the interview the guy did for the local NBC station - Homeowner Guns Down Intruder Who Said She Was Pregnant | NBC Southern California

This guy isn't an asshole like some have been making him out to be but he made a really bad decision and I'd say he's reasonably looking at second degree homicide.

I'd have given him a pass if he shot while they were still inside the house. I think it's reckless as all hell but I'd understand him shooting as they took off down the alley. I can't, however, give him a pass for shooting the chick as she was in the process of surrendering.

The use of deadly force isn't something to be taken lightly. It's a permanent solution to whatever problem you're facing so you'd better be damned sure that it's necessary before you go down that road.

Based on the guys testimony there was no imminent threat. The suspects were heading the other direction and there is no indication that they had the means or intent to head back his way. Unless something else come out about this I see it as a bad shoot.
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Good analysis. Given the totality of the circumstances though, I would support charges of manslaughter, not second degree murder.

These two were not burglarizing say a shed on his property or a garage and then immediately tried to flee when encountered. Rather, once they physically attacked the man in his home and broke his collar bone, they became robbers.

Likewise, there is no evidence that the shooter was baiting potential thieves, nor is there evidence that he was pre determined to kill any and all burglars ala the Montana Moron.

As you mentioned though, the shooter crossed a line. The DA should see that the line crossed was from self defense into Manslaughter.
 
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Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

HogWash said:
Good for old Tom.
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Thank you for your opinion. It confirms the correct belief that this old man should spend the rest of his life locked up.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Middleground said:
She made a poor choice, b................... The same argument can be easily made here.
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Obviously she made a choice that effected the child's demise... her responsibility ... first, foremost, and above all other.

Thom Paine
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

TheNextEra said:
Sorry, but right here from HIS own comments:...........

Nothing is going to get me to see his side from HIS own comments passed that point.
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I don't see it from his side either; I was not there. I have voiced ... it may well be a bad shoot.

TNE... you forgot to answer my question: ???

Thom Paine
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

TheNextEra said:
Sorry, but right here from HIS own comments:



Nothing is going to get me to see his side from HIS own comments passed that point.
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The fact that she yelled out, "I'm going to have a baby," has no effect on me at all. It was a terrible tragedy and crime because he shot her as she was running away. From the account we read, she was shot in the back in the alley -- having run away from the house. That's enough for me.

Pregnant? Who knows?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

MaggieD said:
The fact that she yelled out, "I'm going to have a baby," has no effect on me at all. It was a terrible tragedy and crime because he shot her as she was running away. From the account we read, she was shot in the back in the alley -- having run away from the house. That's enough for me.

Pregnant? Who knows?
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Well someone is going to pay for the crime. Her boyfriend. He has been charged with murder.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Cryptic said:
The shooter is apparently black (well, at least he was speaking in idiomatic english assosciated with blacks).

She was dead. I shot her twice, she best be dead … (The man) had run off and left her.”

As such, I doubt this case of armed idiocy goes any where on CNN and I doubt Obama references it in speeches. For them, the only armed idiots worth reporting on are the white ones- or in the case of Zimmerman, somebody who is a uhmm.... "white hispanic".
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because shooting some one who has robed and attacked you is the same as following some one and confronting them so you can shoot them

clearly race is the only difference between those 2 story's
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

CRUE CAB said:
Well someone is going to pay for the crime. Her boyfriend. He has been charged with murder.
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Yeah, I know. That's interesting, though. Could ignatz still be charged? Or does that mean he's off the hook?
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

MaggieD said:
Yeah, I know. That's interesting, though. Could ignatz still be charged? Or does that mean he's off the hook?
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Doubt he is charged.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

blarg said:
because shooting some one who has robed and attacked you is the same as following some one and confronting them so you can shoot them
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Actually, Zimmerman did not confront Martin solely to shoot him. Had he done so, I doubt he would have called the police first and I also doubt he would have advised the police that he was following / chasing Martin.

Rather, Zimmerman arguably initiated a confrontation that escalated beyond his control. As a result, he "fell back" on the weapon he carried.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Cryptic said:
Actually, Zimmerman did not confront Martin solely to shoot him. Had he done so, I doubt he would have called the police first and I also doubt he would have advised the police that he was following / chasing Martin.

Rather, Zimmerman arguably initiated a confrontation that escalated beyond his control. As a result, he "fell back" on the weapon he carried.
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still seems a lot worse then what this guy did espshsily considering that the police told Zimmerman to back off before he initiated his confrontation
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Texmex said:
Thank you for your opinion. It confirms the correct belief that this old man should spend the rest of his life locked up.
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The pregnant bitch got everything it deserved.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

The schadenfreude is strong in this thread. I am terribly sorry that this girl paid for her bad judgment with her life.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Deuce said:
When the **** did my country get filled with ****ing monsters?
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Oh...you know...those criminal scumbags have been around forever.

Oh...wait...you meant the old guy.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

MaggieD said:
I hope you're wrong.
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So, if someone beats your 80 year old father, breaks his collar bone, steals from him and he fights back and shoots. You want him in jail.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

CRUE CAB said:
So, if someone beats your 80 year old father, breaks his collar bone, steals from him and he fights back and shoots. You want him in jail.
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If he chases her down the alley and shoots him in the back? Yes.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

MaggieD said:
Yeah, I know. That's interesting, though. Could ignatz still be charged? Or does that mean he's off the hook?
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Yes. They could both be held responsible. Given what the guy said in the article I hope he's charged as well. Either that or committed. You don't kill someone to send a message to their accomplice.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

Gaius46 said:
Yes. They could both be held responsible. Given what the guy said in the article I hope he's charged as well. Either that or committed. You don't kill someone to send a message to their accomplice.
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don't think he did he shot her cause she attacked him and robed from him

old guy seems to think that will send a message to her accomplice he did not say he shot her to send a message
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

CRUE CAB said:
I have no sympathy for thieves. I don't have much, but its mine and I busted my ass for it. I don't attach myself to many "property" type things. But the few I make sure I have held onto, mean a lot to me.
Now, I am not going to start spitting lead around the neighborhood over say a car battery or a socket wrench. But some people would.
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Not spitting lead but at least break their hands so they can't steal again.
 
Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

JayDubya said:
Of course not. The kid doesn't deserve to die. The guy didn't deserve to be robbed.

Frankly, when you break into people's homes AND try to steal their belongings AND physically attack them, you can expect to be shot. You arguably deserve to be shot.

She was clearly not very concerned with the well-being of her kid when she chose to commit this heinous act of aggression, an act that will often provoke a violent self-defense response from the victim. It is possible that full responsibility for the death of the kid is on his or her parents for their criminal act.

Possible, as I want to see all the facts in this case before saying anything definitive.
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It could just as easily have gone the other way and the old man die from the beating and the 2 getting away.

When you beat an 80 year old, that is attempted murder.

He made sure they would not come back to kill him later.
 
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