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Thread: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    The only case presented on Greer's behalf so far is, "My feelings are that he ought not be charged."
    I think another position that was posted was that the Prosecutor may not believe he/she could get a conviction for the specifics of this case, and therefore, may not charge.
    Last edited by Excon; 08-05-14 at 01:50 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber


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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I kick in your door, grab your child when you look like you have a defensive weapon. I put a gun to her head. Tell you to start emptying your wallet, safe, and for kicks tell your pretty wife to undress. But in the mean time you see an opening, you have a weapon, a clear shot and the skills to take it.
    Your kid drops to the ground like she should have been taught, and you what? Offer coffee and cookies? Or drop the scum wear he is standing.
    Or do you say, "I don't want to be a murderer" so you tell momma to disrobe like he says and clean our your safe and lay it at his feet like a good little victim.
    Do you not understand the glaring differences between the scenario you presented here and Greer's situation in the alley?

    If you think that these two scenarios are essentially the same in re to self-defense and the use of deadly force, well there's your problem.
    That's why you think everyone is saying something entirely different than what they are actually saying.

    So, seriously, do you understand why the hypothetical scenario you presented is fundamentally different than Greer's situation?

    What about you, Vancemack?
    Can you tell why the two situations are fundamentally different?

    Can you both tell how the situation of 86 yr old who acted to stop an armed robbery in progress is fundamentally different from Greer's situation?

    If you guys are lumping these very different situations where an immediate threat is neutralized through deadly force with a situation where deadly force was used in the absence of an immediate threat, that explains why you are having trouble understanding the objections to Greer's behavior.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Do you not understand the glaring differences between the scenario you presented here and Greer's situation in the alley?

    If you think that these two scenarios are essentially the same in re to self-defense and the use of deadly force, well there's your problem.
    That's why you think everyone is saying something entirely different than what they are actually saying.

    So, seriously, do you understand why the hypothetical scenario you presented is fundamentally different than Greer's situation?

    What about you, Vancemack?
    Can you tell why the two situations are fundamentally different?

    Can you both tell how the situation of 86 yr old who acted to stop an armed robbery in progress is fundamentally different from Greer's situation?

    If you guys are lumping these very different situations where an immediate threat is neutralized through deadly force with a situation where deadly force was used in the absence of an immediate threat, that explains why you are having trouble understanding the objections to Greer's behavior.
    No, its the same. Be a victim and do nothing about it. That's what it sizes up to.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Beating up an old person is abuse of an elderly person, you don't need to be in a relationship. Keep defending the scum criminal that he shot.
    Nice hyperbole. I am not defending the thieves, I am condemning his unlawful actions.

    You said "You may want to look into elder abuse charges before you tell me what is and isn't a felony." Sorry but moving the goal posts because you have no clue what you are talking about is not going to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    From your link...

    Those accused of violating California elder abuse laws are typically either family members of ... or caregivers for ... the alleged elderly victim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Would you be a cop if you could go to prison and lose all of your stuff for accidentally arresting the wrong guy?
    Neither would I. Nor would hardly a soul.
    Cops need that protection. As long as they are performing their duties in good faith and according the manner they should, they cannot face criminal charges for false imprisonment, nor assault/battery charge for forcefully restraining suspects, etc.

    If they had the same liabilities as citizens, cops would be going to prison and being sued left and right every time they made an arrest that didn't lead to a conviction

    Honestly, I cannot imagine why you would think that cops do not need this protection.
    It's startling really.

    And as noted the rules for such engagements would have precluded Greer from shooting Miller if Greer was a cop.
    TNvG proposes a two part test for when it is constitutionally okay for a cop to shoot a fleeing suspect.
    Failing either part of the test means that the case "does not justify the use of deadly force"
    Greer's situation fails both parts of the test.
    So if Greer had been a cop, the shooting still would have been illegal.


    Fleeing is a felony in progress?

    Eliminating current, existing danger with deadly force as needed = GOOD JOB! YAY!
    Eliminating hypothetical threat at some future point in time = murder. Boo!

    It's that simple. It really is.

    Stopping a felony in progress is what Greer did when he first started shooting at the crooks while they were in his house.
    YAY! GO GREER! GOOD JOB!
    We all cheer him for this.
    Perfectly legal and ethical.

    When Greer shot Miller, the felony had been stopped. There was no existing danger which had to be stopped by killing Miller.


    The differences between these scenarios that are offered for comparison and Greer's situation seem readily obvious.
    FL cops fired 377 rounds at unarmed men in deafening barrage that killed suspect, friend

    Cuz...why hold cops to a higher standard then an 80 year old man that got jumped and beaten in his own home....

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Do you not understand the glaring differences between the scenario you presented here and Greer's situation in the alley?

    If you think that these two scenarios are essentially the same in re to self-defense and the use of deadly force, well there's your problem.
    That's why you think everyone is saying something entirely different than what they are actually saying.

    So, seriously, do you understand why the hypothetical scenario you presented is fundamentally different than Greer's situation?

    What about you, Vancemack?
    Can you tell why the two situations are fundamentally different?

    Can you both tell how the situation of 86 yr old who acted to stop an armed robbery in progress is fundamentally different from Greer's situation?

    If you guys are lumping these very different situations where an immediate threat is neutralized through deadly force with a situation where deadly force was used in the absence of an immediate threat, that explains why you are having trouble understanding the objections to Greer's behavior.
    86 year old shot at a man felling the scene of a crime. 80 year old man shot a thug that had a history of perpetrating violent criminal acts against the elderly and would very likely have continued to perpetrate violent criminal acts. The perpetrator had just joined her thug in beating the **** out of an 80 year old man and throwing him to the ground breaking his collar bone.

    Frankly...no...I dont see much of a difference, except that the 80 year old actually has prevented future crimes from 2 assailants and a 3rd co-conspirator.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The fact is YOU judged him. So get off your soapboax telling other people not to judge hypocrite.
    I did...true...but I at least have the decency to try to put myself in his situation to gain perspective. You...you cant be bothered and have admitted as much.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I did...true...but I at least have the decency to try to put myself in his situation to gain perspective. You...you cant be bothered and have admitted as much.
    Yea I agree with this. I can't put myself in his position because I literally know nothing about the guy other than the story and video. Going by those things, the only conclusion I can come to is he broke the law.

    Fortunately for him, I am not the DA, lol. Because they may let him off for reasons I don't know about. As long as they follow the process and law, I am good with whatever decision they make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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