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Thread: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

  1. #631
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The fight or flight theory is valid. There is a reason why cops often shoot 16 rounds...because their magazines dont hold 17. And I'm sorry...you are just painting yourself as ridiculous if you think you would be calm, reasonable, and rational if you were an 80 year old getting jumped in your own home by multiple assailants.
    Again you are assuming #1 your feelings are how everyone else feels, and #2 assuming everyone responds the same under pressure. That is ignorance at it's finest. I have seen craven cowards and heroes because we all react differently under pressure. His actions were under stress or not, were illegal. The law does not recognize fight or flight as a valid defence.

    Cops often shoot 16 rounds? What was the situation? Did they bring down whatever they were shooting at? Do you have any proof of this?

    PS I am not calling you ignorant as an insult, I mean ignorant as in unknowledgeable.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-05-14 at 01:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #632
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I tend to agree. I just understand others would behave differently. Trained law enforcement have behaved similarly. Its not UNREASONABLE to expect that some people in that set of circumstances might act 'unreasonably'.
    I agree. My only argument is the reaction is not justifiable no matter who did it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #633
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    Blah, blah and blah. He said what he said and showed no regret.
    OMG! The attacks of the blah, blah and blah!

    Yes he said what he said, which was not anything about him sending a message.
    That was nothing but unlearned interpretation of his comment. He clearly did not say he did it to send any message.
    Nor does he have to show any regret. That is nothing but another absurd comment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    He said what he said and he did not shoot anyone at that point in self defence.
    Yes he did say what he said. So what?
    Nor did I claim he shot in self defense, did I?


    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    He was angry and wanted revenge and to send a message, period.
    More dishonest bs from you. Figures.
    He was caught up in the moment. That is all.
    It was not to send a message, nor an act of revenge. Saying so is just dishonesty. Period.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  4. #634
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Did Tennessee change its law?
    Idk, but the case you cite is the case which ruled that particular law to be unconstitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The point being,there is precedence where law enforcement officers have shot fleeing unarmed suspects.
    TNvG provides a two part test for when it is okay to shoot a fleeing suspect.
    The suspect must present and "immediate" danger sufficient to warrant seizing that person's life.
    Shooting the suspect must be the only available method for seizing the suspect.
    Greer shooting Miller failed on both counts.
    Greer's case fails most egregiously in the second case in that Greer was not trying to apprehend Miller at all.
    He was trying to kill her not capture her.

    So in addition to Greer not being a cop, neither he nor the community at large was in immediate danger from Miller, nor was Greer attempting to arrest Miller at all.

    TNvG has zero bearing on Greer's case.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its unreasonable to presume civilians should be held to higher standards. Particularly not civilians that have just gotten jumped in their own homes and have had body parts literally broken.
    Even though Greer's situation would fail the TNvG test were Greer a cop, I'd like to point out a couple of things.

    We give police leeway in these matter which we don't give to civilians.
    If a cop arrests you and it's a mistake the cop is protected even if he has to use physical force to effect the arrest.
    If a citizen tries the same crap--tries to arrest you and gets violent--the citizen is open to criminal charges as well as civil suits.
    It is entirely reasonable for civilians to be held to a higher standard that cops.

    Second, Greer is not being held to a higher standard than is indicated by TNvG.
    I may be wrong.

  5. #635
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It is entirely reasonable for civilians to be held to a higher standard that cops.
    It shouldn't be when using deadly force. It should be more relaxed for civilians as they are not trained as an Officer is.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    More dishonest bs from you figures.
    He was caught up in the moment. That is all.
    It was not to send a message, nor an act of revenge. Saying so is just dishonesty. Period.
    This shows the ridiculousness of your argument.

    So now getting "caught up in the moment" is not getting revenge? So getting "caught up in the moment" was not to send a message? Come on then what was the motivation for getting "caught up in the moment" a desire to kill someone running away and shooting them in the back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #637
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It shouldn't be when using deadly force. It should be more relaxed for civilians as they are not trained as an Officer is.
    Absolute nonsense. People should not be shooting people in the back who are running away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #638
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing his assailant

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    This shows the ridiculousness of your argument.

    So now getting "caught up in the moment" is not getting revenge? So getting "caught up in the moment" was not to send a message? Come on then what was the motivation for getting "caught up in the moment" a desire to kill someone running away and shooting them in the back?
    No, it shows the ridiculousness of your argument.
    He was not sending any message. That exists solely in your mind.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    Absolute nonsense. People should not be shooting people in the back who are running away.
    What is absolute nonsense, is you replying while not understanding what is being spoken to.
    Do try to keep up.
    And at least bother to note what my position is regarding the shooting.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It shouldn't be when using deadly force. It should be more relaxed for civilians as they are not trained as an Officer is.
    Civilians should have the same immunity from prosecution as cops?
    Civilians should be able to forcibly detain one another and not be held liable for the use of violence if the other civilian resists?

    On its face, that does not sound workable. But perhaps I am missing something which would make that make sense.

    In any case, current conditions are that police have special protections which go along with their job--part of which is catching criminals.
    Greer was not trying to apprehend Miller, btw. He was trying to kill her.
    So even if Greer had been a cop, Greer still would be a murderer.

    This whole TNvGarner business is a red herring.
    I may be wrong.

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