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Thread: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

  1. #161
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Same here. I am pro-life, anti-death penalty. I think, regardless of his age, he should serve time.

    Also, I think the fact that the woman lied about being pregnant is irrelevant. She told him she was - he should have gone on that assumption until it was proved otherwise. Personally, I think the guy was an animal. She was running away. If he wanted to prevent her coming back to do it again, he should have fired a few shots into the air to let them know he had a gun (although that isn't working out so well for Marissa Alexander). Either way, if she was running away, and he shot her in the back, he's a reprehensible bastard who deserves anything that is coming to him.
    It is good to see a progressive who is pro life. I wish there were more of you.

    That aside, for me the shooters words describing the incident were far more reprehensible than his actions. I could understand, though might still convict the shooter if the fact pattern was:

    - "I was robbed and beaten in my home. I managed to get a weapon and fired at them. I continued to chase and fire at them as they were running away. She tried to speak to me, I ignored her and shot her. I should not have done it, but my blood was up."

    Instead there seems to be a fact pattern of:

    - "I got robbed and beaten in my home. I chased them down and executed one of them. I have no regrets, I knew she claimed she was pregant, I still killed her and I would do it again..."

  2. #162
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I am pro life and I would convict the shooter of Manslaughter.

    In addition, if his apparent lack of remorse and suggestions that the killing was an execution are accurate, I would advocate that he receive the maximum allowable sentence for manslaughter.

    In the end, howwever, the victim was not innocent and the circumstances do not support a charge of Second Degree Murder.
    because he intended to kill her while she was retreating, i would instead subscribe to a murder two indictment
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    because he intended to kill her while she was retreating, i would instead subscribe to a murder two indictment
    Though I see your point, I think it falls short. At the end of the day, the shooter shot her while fleeing after she entered his home, beat him and robbed him. '

    I would only indict for Murder 2 if say:

    - They were burglarizing the home, or a garage, never attacked the shooter and immediatedly tried to flee
    - The Shooter had baited them into committing the crime (Montana incident)
    - The shooter had stated that he intended to kill any and all burglars, not matter the circumstances (Montana incident).

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Here is the thing.
    Humans get caught up in the emotional excitement of traumatic situations.
    It doesn't matter their age.

    Most folks understand the following.
    A person walks in on their spouse cheating.
    That person gets so caught up in emotion that they go get a gun and start firing away even when their spouse is fleeing.

    Most folks understand the above, yet they fail to understand being emotionally caught up under other circumstances, such as this case.
    They both are similar in that they are traumatic experiences where the individual gets caught up in the emotions of the moment.

    I would suggest that folks start understanding and considering being caught up in the emotions of the moment when judging such.



    What the guy did was illegal, but understandable.
    I hope the jury walks him, or that he receives the lightest sentence possible.
    I doubt anything harsher serves any actual purpose.




    As for the following that was slipped in this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Just following Barack "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon" Obama's lead.

    And as a side note, I would have convicted Zimmerman of negligent homicide if Florida law allowed it.
    Negligent homicide?
    iLOL
    He deliberately shot Trayvon in self-defense. That is not negligence.
    And you doing so would fly in the face of the evidence. So all you would have done is idiotically hung the jury.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Rather than Second Degree Murder, the appropriate charges seem to be Criminally Negligent Homicide (Zimmerman) and Manslaughter (California guy).

    Not for Zimmerman, as he was acting in self defense.
    It's like you forgot all the evidence presented in Court.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Actually, Zimmerman did not confront Martin solely to shoot him. Had he done so, I doubt he would have called the police first and I also doubt he would have advised the police that he was following / chasing Martin.

    Rather, Zimmerman arguably initiated a confrontation that escalated beyond his control. As a result, he "fell back" on the weapon he carried.
    You seem to have forgotten, Zimmerman didn't confront Trayvon at all.
    Trayvon confronted him. Has to return to an area he was not in to do it. Either that, or he laid in wait.

    So no, simply following to keep eyes on a suspicious person until the police arrive, is not "arguably initiating a confrontation".
    Trayvon returning to, or coming out of hiding, once Zimmerman stopped keeping eyes on him was the initiation of the confrontation.


    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    still seems a lot worse then what this guy did espshsily considering that the police told Zimmerman to back off before he initiated his confrontation
    Zimmerman did not initiate the confrontation, and the police never told him to back off.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    From what I remember, he'd been robbed twice before when he wasn't at home. Where are you getting that these same people did it twice before?

    I do think it's likely they would have killed him before they left, though, since he'd seen them and they'd already beat the livin' daylights out of him. At least, if I were him, I'd have made that assumption.
    He said in his interview it was the same people but he didn't say how he knew.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The Shooter had baited them into committing the crime (Montana incident)
    There was no baiting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The shooter had stated that he intended to kill any and all burglars, not matter the circumstances (Montana incident).
    Blowing off steam is not intent.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Here is the thing.
    Humans get caught up in the emotional excitement of traumatic situations.
    It doesn't matter their age.

    Most folks understand the following.
    A person walks in on their spouse cheating.
    That person gets so caught up in emotion that they go get a gun and start firing away even when their spouse is fleeing.

    Most folks understand the above, yet they fail to understand being emotionally caught up under other circumstances, such as this case.
    They both are similar in that they are traumatic experiences where the individual gets caught up in the emotions of the moment.

    I would suggest that folks start understanding and considering being caught up in the emotions of the moment when judging such.

    What the guy did was illegal, but understandable.

    I hope the jury walks him, or that he receives the lightest sentence possible. I doubt anything harsher serves any actual purpose.
    You and I seldom agree, and I didn't agree with you when I first posted on this thread. But something that Thom Paine said registered with me. And you express it here very well. He was wrapped up in the moment. Probably thought he was going to die if he didn't get hold of his gun. (I would have thought so. He'd seen their faces. One was a felon.)

    So, I have to say, Excon. I'm with you on this one.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    He said in his interview it was the same people but he didn't say how he knew.
    I actually don't think he did, Mason. (Say that, I mean.)
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Here is the thing.
    Humans get caught up in the emotional excitement of traumatic situations.
    It doesn't matter their age.

    Most folks understand the following.
    A person walks in on their spouse cheating.
    That person gets so caught up in emotion that they go get a gun and start firing away even when their spouse is fleeing.

    Most folks understand the above, yet they fail to understand being emotionally caught up under other circumstances, such as this case.
    They both are similar in that they are traumatic experiences where the individual gets caught up in the emotions of the moment.

    I would suggest that folks start understanding and considering being caught up in the emotions of the moment when judging such.



    What the guy did was illegal, but understandable.
    I hope the jury walks him, or that he receives the lightest sentence possible.
    I doubt anything harsher serves any actual purpose.




    As for the following that was slipped in this topic.

    Negligent homicide?
    iLOL
    He deliberately shot Trayvon in self-defense. That is not negligence.
    And you doing so would fly in the face of the evidence. So all you would have done is idiotically hung the jury.



    Not for Zimmerman, as he was acting in self defense.
    It's like you forgot all the evidence presented in Court.



    You seem to have forgotten, Zimmerman didn't confront Trayvon at all.
    Trayvon confronted him. Has to return to an area he was not in to do it. Either that, or he laid in wait.

    So no, simply following to keep eyes on a suspicious person until the police arrive, is not "arguably initiating a confrontation".
    Trayvon returning to, or coming out of hiding, once Zimmerman stopped keeping eyes on him was the initiation of the confrontation.


    Zimmerman did not initiate the confrontation, and the police never told him to back off.
    can't agree with that
    each of us, once we achieve the age of emancipation, is responsible for our emotions
    to be adult is to avoid allowing others to affect one's emotions. it's how we accept personal responsibility
    his justified anger at being a B&E victim (multiple times) and being physically assaulted, does not justify his revenge murder of a woman in retreat
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #170
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You and I have entirely different definitions of the word "imminent."
    I am sure we do.

    Should the man sit in his apartment waiting for them to come back and finish the job?

    Is that what you would do?

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