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Thread: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched [W:700]

  1. #141
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    In California? No, their laws make the prospect of owning a gun odious, let alone using one in self-defense.

    In my state? We can absolutely shoot a thief trying to make off with our property.

    It matters to me whether or not they had stolen anything, and since they were inside after breaking in and messing with his safe, I think it likely they had stolen at least some item of opportunity. But I will wait for the facts to be sussed out. Major details are yet to be known here.
    granted. I don't know all state laws. my state, you have to feel threaten to shoot.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm fairly certain that a death caused by a secondary crime that is committed in response to the initial crime is attributable to the initiating party. For example, if I pick a dudes pocket and he decides to shoot a baby in the park across the street, I doubt I'm going to be on the hook for his actions.

    Personal responsibility means that everyone is responsible for their OWN actions, not the actions of others.

    I'm not sure of the applicability of your example.. but you may be correct.... ????

    Good day to you Tuck
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Argue the point you're making, of course. But later information revealed that the woman was not pregnant.
    Yes, we know that now. But when we didn't, the pro-lifers didn't seem to think what the shooter did was wrong. I find it fascinating.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Huh? In English please.
    I'm not sure what other language I was using to be honest. If it's a grammar mistake, fine, but I was using the English language. She is the party that is responsible for the life of the unborn and her actions will lead to either it's birth or it's demise. If she is acting on another person while being pregnant there is no reason that the person being acted upon doesn't have the right to defend their own life. If you believe that the unborn has the right to life there is no reason for you to accept her actions towards the unborn as being justified when she decides to abort her pregnancy.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    [QUOTE=mak2;1063562661]Do you think that is a good law? Would you shoot someone running away from you with some of your say moderately valuable stuff?[/QUOTE


    Hell yes!!!!!
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Hell yes!!!!!
    Indeed. It's my property and I'm going to do what is necessary to reacquire it. If that means shooting them in the back, so be it.

  7. #147
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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Paine View Post
    I'm not sure of the applicability of your example.. but you may be correct.... ????

    Good day to you Tuck
    Good day to you too!

    Ultimately, the real issue is whether or not the action committed by the old man was a crime in response to a crime or a valid attempt at self-defense. If he chased her down as she fled or had her subdued and decided to shoot in a retaliatory/vigilante fashion, it's a crime. He was acting as judge jury and executioner and bypassing the judicial system. If, however, any reasonable person in his situation would have still feared for their own safety based on an imminent threat that she posed, he was justified in self-defense.

    This is why there is a judicial system. He's presenting an affirmative defense which appears to be in contradiction to the described events. He is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but so was she. Due to his affirmative defense, there must be clear evidence that she did in fact commit a crime (presumably easy if there was a crime) and he needs to prove that he was still in imminent danger due to his defense being an affirmative defense (like an insanity defense, a self-defense argument must have supporting evidence before it is accepted). He has admitted to performing the action that may be criminal. Thus, he should be charged in order to allow a jury of his peers to decide if his defense is justified.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not sure what other language I was using to be honest. If it's a grammar mistake, fine, but I was using the English language. She is the party that is responsible for the life of the unborn and her actions will lead to either it's birth or it's demise. If she is acting on another person while being pregnant there is no reason that the person being acted upon doesn't have the right to defend their own life. If you believe that the unborn has the right to life there is no reason for you to accept her actions towards the unborn as being justified when she decides to abort her pregnancy.
    That gave me a migraine.

    You forgot to mention that the "person being acted upon" knew she was pregnant and that her death would result in it's demise. Pro-lifers here seemed perfect okay with that, which surprised me.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Good day to you too!

    Ultimately, the real issue is whether or not the action committed by the old man was a crime in response to a crime or a valid attempt at self-defense. If he chased her down as she fled or had her subdued and decided to shoot in a retaliatory/vigilante fashion, it's a crime. He was acting as judge jury and executioner and bypassing the judicial system. If, however, any reasonable person in his situation would have still feared for their own safety based on an imminent threat that she posed, he was justified in self-defense.

    This is why there is a judicial system. He's presenting an affirmative defense which appears to be in contradiction to the described events. He is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but so was she. Due to his affirmative defense, there must be clear evidence that she did in fact commit a crime (presumably easy if there was a crime) and he needs to prove that he was still in imminent danger due to his defense being an affirmative defense (like an insanity defense, a self-defense argument must have supporting evidence before it is accepted). He has admitted to performing the action that may be criminal. Thus, he should be charged in order to allow a jury of his peers to decide if his defense is justified.
    I agree with your statement in its' entirety.



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    Re: 80-Year-Old Extremely Pleased About Killing Pregnant Woman Fleeing Botched Robber

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    The victim said this is the third time they have tried to rob him.

    They suspects both climbed through his window, which are not big in a small apartment like that, and were wrestling with a safe when he walked in.

    Does any of that give you an indication that the woman was actually pregnant?

    This was the third time they have been there to rob him, but he made sure there would not be a fourth.

    He did what he had to do.

    I think the imminent threat in this case could be extended being that he could be sure they would try it again and they came close this time to killing him.
    You and I have entirely different definitions of the word "imminent."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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